Manda
You all make me laugh 
Wildwood Tarot
blue_fusion
rwcarter said:
Following that line of thinking, is GREENWood really any better then?
MysticalMoose
Ewwwww 
.......what a thought.....:-S
.......what a thought.....:-S2_Journey
I just discovered this thread, and am smitten with the idea of this deck. Love the artist and can't wait for any news regarding the deck.
*Adds thread to watch list!*
*Adds thread to watch list!*
SolSionnach
Thanks so much for your thoughts, Mi-Shell. You put knowledge behind my instincts!Mi-Shell said:Hi guys!
I have not looked at this thread since late January.
I am wondering, how the people of the Wild Greenwood would look, with giant feet and too big hands????
And how the animals would look? I do not much like Worthington's Horses.(see Prince of Wands..)
I also wonder, if the new deck will loose its magical colours.....
in Worhington's art most all the cards are evenly colorful, unlike the Greenwood, where the selection of the colors set the mood of the individual card and give them their shamanistic feel examples; Moon, 5 of Arrows, 9 of Stones, 5 of Stones, 2 of Arrows and maaaany more...
I feel that cards like the 5 od cups, 4 of Stones, 9 of Arrows or 2 of Wands would loose their spell iffff they were in full poppy colors....
As to messing with whatever westerners think the "Medicine Wheel" is - That just does not belong into the concept of this deck.
The Native American "Medicine Wheel" is a construct of many similar sacred teachings of different tribes woven together by the Pan-Indian movement, (Pan Indianism)that was born out of the merging belief systems of the tribes that were squeeeezed together onto small reservations. It is intendet as a pathway that enables modern First Nations people of mixed and multi tribal ancestry to worship and make Prayer.
Sure, all original cultures had distinct symbols for the 4 directions, but does anybody REALY for SURE KNOW, what symbols the pre-Celtic clans had where and for what????
Or would such a concept be derived from New Age imagination?
There are groups in England, that follow, what they understand as a form of Celtic shamanism/ animism and some of them have developed and use a sort of medicine wheel.... They MAY even get offended if one assumes that it is Native American or Siberian inspired.
But should something like that have a place in the Greenwood Tarot?
Would it still be "our Greenwood" or just another new deck?
I think you're also right about Worthington and *some* animals. I was looking through the Druid Animal Oracle last night, and while some of the animals don't look right, others are truly well done.
It looks like this will be a completely different deck than the Greenwood. I certainly hope that they don't advertise it as a Greenwood sequel.
ETA: re: the Medicine Wheel - While I respect others' interest in the MW, personally it feels like a bad fit for me. Personally, I have a reaction to Non-Native people appropriating Native spirituality - and if they do try to add on the MW to Pre-Celtic Shamanism or whatever, it feels like an abomination to me.
HearthCricket
sravana said:
I agree. Thank you, Mi-Shell, on your perspective of these changes to the deck. I think the whole deck is simply going to take on a completely different feel, which surprises me that they want to drift so much from anything Pre-Celtic or Celtic, even. It isn't going to be the Greenwood and what they end up doing with it may be nice, but it isn't going to be the same. I also thought about the colours, the lovely pastels as well as the blacks that are like cave drawings. That whole ancestral feel will be gone with rich greens, oranges, golds, etc. It still may end up being a very nice deck, but it won't be the Greenwood or a version of it, IMO, if they start adding things like the Medicine Wheel which has nothing to do with the original theme.
magpie9
Well I'm probably going to get slapped down hard for his, but I would like to point out that the Wheel of the Year, or Turning of the Seasons is not entirely a Native American concept, let alone property. the wheel turned in Europe and Asia, and in fact, everywhere, given climatic differences. In harsher climes it was more apparent than others, but it was everywhere, not just in North America. And the turning of that Wheel was an important factor in the Greenwood, what with that diagram and the reasoning behind the different order of the majors. So do try and pull yourselves together and give house room to the idea that they're maybe not sticking the Medicine Wheel in, but being sure to work with the natural European version, whose remnants give us Yule and Halloween and Lady's day and Lughnassa and all that, still, to this very day. Not to say they won't screw it up and go Pan-Atlantic, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt, shall we, in hopes that they're really not so dense they don't know which side of the pond they're on and can't tell the difference between the Medicine Wheel and the Wheel of the flippin' Year!
Bat Chicken
Curious that I missed this...
I think Fudugazi said it already that the original art was based on 'visionary' work by the artist. This immediately makes this a different deck. As talented as WW is (I am a great fan of his Plant Oracle illustration and his painting "Druid" especially) it will have a unique take on the subject - inevitably. Even CP differed on the content of the Greenwood book - hence her website.
As for the medicine wheel, if the deck is to be 'pre-Celtic', incorporating a foreign idea is not really going to make for a powerful deck. It will water it down - but that said - I agree with magpie that there are similar concepts very evident in pre-Celtic archaeology of a wheel of the year and other astronomical elements. Let's assume it is just a 'label' for now and see what happens...
Either way, this deck sounds like one I will be very interested in watching, but, I am not expecting a new "Greenwood".
I think Fudugazi said it already that the original art was based on 'visionary' work by the artist. This immediately makes this a different deck. As talented as WW is (I am a great fan of his Plant Oracle illustration and his painting "Druid" especially) it will have a unique take on the subject - inevitably. Even CP differed on the content of the Greenwood book - hence her website.
As for the medicine wheel, if the deck is to be 'pre-Celtic', incorporating a foreign idea is not really going to make for a powerful deck. It will water it down - but that said - I agree with magpie that there are similar concepts very evident in pre-Celtic archaeology of a wheel of the year and other astronomical elements. Let's assume it is just a 'label' for now and see what happens...
Either way, this deck sounds like one I will be very interested in watching, but, I am not expecting a new "Greenwood".
SolSionnach
Hat tip to Mags and Bat Chicken.
Yes, of course, the Greenwood includes important correlations with the Wheel of the Year. Perhaps I'm confused, but I didn't think that the Medicine Wheel had anything to do with the what's commonly known as the Wheel of the Year. I thought it had to do with the Medicine of the Directions, and perhaps Totem Animal Medicine that was related to the Directions, but nothing to do with Seasonality.
Mi-Shell, am I wrong about this? Because if I am,then I could possibly see a way to integrate it into some kind of Pan-Aboriginal System Of The High Muckity-Mucks. As long as the Dreamtime and the Rainbow Serpent is included, that is.
Yes, of course, the Greenwood includes important correlations with the Wheel of the Year. Perhaps I'm confused, but I didn't think that the Medicine Wheel had anything to do with the what's commonly known as the Wheel of the Year. I thought it had to do with the Medicine of the Directions, and perhaps Totem Animal Medicine that was related to the Directions, but nothing to do with Seasonality.
Mi-Shell, am I wrong about this? Because if I am,then I could possibly see a way to integrate it into some kind of Pan-Aboriginal System Of The High Muckity-Mucks. As long as the Dreamtime and the Rainbow Serpent is included, that is.
Bat Chicken
I know you are waiting for Mi-Shell to answer this question, but I might toss in a thought in addition...
If you see 'shamans' as tapping into that greater "Source", then all they are doing is interpreting it for their own cultures - putting it into their own cosmology. Therefore you are going to see themes that are common to all underlying the specific mythology and symbols.
In terms of the seasons, there are many interpretations of the MW. In the one I was taught by an Ojibway friend (and the ones I have seen through Mi-Shell), I have seen the seasons presented. It seems likely that the Celts and pre-Celts would have associated the plants and animals to these changes as well.
The problem lies in determining whether the goal is to examine 'wisdom' and vision or a particular cultural approach.
Being North American, the land I live on has centuries of culture and spirits, animals that are unique to this place. My cultural memory is largely European (Celtic) and that brings with it a different mythology. Many of the symbols have been changed over the years by the influence of many different belief systems - so I believe this is going to happen when we see commonality in the culture and beliefs of the people who know and are of this land. My family is 375 years here, so where does one draw the line?
I think this is why is is so important that we make our own minds up. There is something for everyone - a rainbow or a solid symbol, depending on what we need. Some seek their own through shamanic practice and imagination.
William Blake said, " ‘I must create a system or be enslaved by another man’s.’ ". Heavily influenced by gnostic, and medieval iconography, he created a world of his own.
So essentially, you must follow your instincts and go with what you resonate with. What is orthodox and what isn't is for scholars. Again, what is important here is what the goal is. And what makes the connection for you. There are many 'how's' to get to the same place.
In terms of the deck itself, then it is up to the authors and then we receive it as we may....
If you see 'shamans' as tapping into that greater "Source", then all they are doing is interpreting it for their own cultures - putting it into their own cosmology. Therefore you are going to see themes that are common to all underlying the specific mythology and symbols.
In terms of the seasons, there are many interpretations of the MW. In the one I was taught by an Ojibway friend (and the ones I have seen through Mi-Shell), I have seen the seasons presented. It seems likely that the Celts and pre-Celts would have associated the plants and animals to these changes as well.
The problem lies in determining whether the goal is to examine 'wisdom' and vision or a particular cultural approach.
Being North American, the land I live on has centuries of culture and spirits, animals that are unique to this place. My cultural memory is largely European (Celtic) and that brings with it a different mythology. Many of the symbols have been changed over the years by the influence of many different belief systems - so I believe this is going to happen when we see commonality in the culture and beliefs of the people who know and are of this land. My family is 375 years here, so where does one draw the line?
I think this is why is is so important that we make our own minds up. There is something for everyone - a rainbow or a solid symbol, depending on what we need. Some seek their own through shamanic practice and imagination.
William Blake said, " ‘I must create a system or be enslaved by another man’s.’ ". Heavily influenced by gnostic, and medieval iconography, he created a world of his own.
So essentially, you must follow your instincts and go with what you resonate with. What is orthodox and what isn't is for scholars. Again, what is important here is what the goal is. And what makes the connection for you. There are many 'how's' to get to the same place.
In terms of the deck itself, then it is up to the authors and then we receive it as we may....
