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thoth study or intuition????

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Quote:
Aleister Crowley Quotes

"Do what thou wilt" shall be the whole of the law.

"The fact is that the vast majority of people are absolutely impervious to facts. Test the average man by asking him to listen to a simple sentence which contains one word with associations to excite his prejudices, fears or passions -- he will fail to understand what you have said and reply by expressing his emotional reaction to the critical word. It was long before I understood this fact of psychology. Even to this day, it surprises me that there should be minds which are unable to accept any impression equably and critically. I have heard many great orators. The effect has nearly always been to make me wonder how they have the nerve to put forward such flimsy falsehoods”:

“Intolerance is evidence of impotence.”
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Top   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrae
...why as a matter of fact I have read Crowley. Thank you very much for your kind words.
You're welcome.

Besides the fact that Crowley dismisses the Egyptian connection on the very first page of The Book of Thoth, he goes on to say:
Quote:
The origin of the Tarot is quite irrelevent, even if it were certain. It must stand or fall as a system on it's own merits.
It doesn't matter in the slightest what Crowley's opinion of the origin of Tarot may or may not have been. In terms of the system it is an irrelevancy. It either works or it doesn't.

But the point is that there is a system and a symbolic language behind the cards. They were specifically structured and illustrated to reflect this fact. To ignore the system misses the point and ignores the very things that make the Thoth stand out from the crowd.

Of course anyone can read that Thoth anyway they want to. But if you think the original intention behind the deck doesn't matter, why bother with the Thoth at all? Why not read the tea leaves instead?
Top   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrae
How can one understand Crowley and not understand me?
That's a good question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrae
I believe it’s dogmatic to hit folks over the head with the insistence that they begin with the books.
At no point have I said that people must start their Thoth journey with books alone. It's my opinion that people begin with a balanced combination of intuition and study, but I don't insist on it.

Like I said before people can read the Thoth anyway they like, but I feel that many important points that make the Thoth so special will be missed if even minimal background information is ignored.

For example the Devil of the Thoth deck is very different from the Devil of other decks. But how many people will pick that up by intuition alone? I would guess not many because most people would bring with them a whole host of religious and cultural baggage, superstition and fears. Instead of seeing a symbol of individuality, freedom, and creativity, most people would see evil and sin and all that kind of stuff. Again, there's nothing wrong with that, but it ignores the intention of the card completely. An intention that probably won't become apparent without a little bit of study.
Top   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baroli
OH Aeon418 or whatever,

If Crowley denounces the Egyptian connection, why does his Book of Thoth have underneathe in parenthesis (Egyptian Tarot). Perhaps a mistake on the publisher?

Could you enlighten us since you have read Crowley?

I do so love an authority on information.

Please??

Baroli
Ask - and it is yours...

Quote:
From: The Book of Thoth – A Short Essay On The Tarot Of The Egyptians (being The Equinox Volume III No. V
By The Master Therion

Page 3

The origin of this pack of cards is very obscure. Some authorities seek to put it back as far as the ancient Egyptian Mysteries; others try to bring it forward as late as the fifteenth or even the sixteenth century. But the Tarot certainly existed in what may be called the classical form, as early as the fourteenth century; for packs of that date are extant, and the form has not varied in any notable respect since that time.

In the Middle ages, these cards were much used for fortune telling, especially by gypsies, so that it was customary to speak of the “Tarot of the Bohemians”, or “Egyptians”. When it was found that the gypsies, despite the etymology, were pf Asiatic origin, some people tried to find its source in Indian art and literature.

There is no need to enter into any discussion of these disputed points.

Page 10 (entry included in its entirety).

1. The origin of the Tarot is quite irrelevant, even if it were certain. It must stand or fall as a system on its own merits.
Feel free to find how many errors one can find in this short paragraph.
Top   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbrae
Feel free to find how many errors one can find in this short paragraph.
The important point is, which of those statements are Crowley's opinions?
Top   #65
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In the first paragraph it seems that it is his opinion that 'some people' think these things.
It's not clear whether he includes himself in those people or not.
Top   #66
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It seemed that AC was giving the range of opinions current at that time. He did not appear to own them himself.

Encouraging people to try and understand the thought behind the illustrations of a complex system hardly seems criminal. The Thoth Forum has encouraged a wide range of approaches. I find myself surprised at several of these comments as my long association with this Forum suggests that a dogmatic approach has not been taken by its frequenters.

Marion
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Top   #67
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A little bit late to jump into this thread...

When I bought my large Thoth about 3 months ago, I started to read it like a Rider-Waite. Then, over a few weeks, I started picking my own meanings based on the image and numerology and that deck gave me great satisfaction reading intuitively. So, I guess yes, anyone could read intuitively with the Thoth, and it might be a good thing to familiar oneself with the cards.

Fast forward now, and I start having the need to understand the deck better, I bought the Book of Thoth and Duquette's book, and the more I read the more the deck becomes fascinating, it becomes alive. It feels like a discovered a friend first, and now I want to know more about.
But, I'm still very happy that I started reading intuitively, picking up what the cads mean to me first
Top   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marion
It seemed that AC was giving the range of opinions current at that time. He did not appear to own them himself.

Encouraging people to try and understand the thought behind the illustrations of a complex system hardly seems criminal. The Thoth Forum has encouraged a wide range of approaches. I find myself surprised at several of these comments as my long association with this Forum suggests that a dogmatic approach has not been taken by its frequenters.
Indeed. Marion. I do hope we are not going to see this discussion degenerate into the True Truth vs. the Not True Not Truth.....

Been there and as a result there is one deck I dare not even ASK about publicly in forums any more.....

I find this deck fascinating; so far most of the actual info I have about it has come direct from Lillie, but I have Duquette and the Book of Thoth, and shall read them in time. I HAVE read a biography of Uncle Al, but it was so long ago I forget which..... But the cards themselves have so much to say, I have my work cut out already !
Top   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregory

I find this deck fascinating; so far most of the actual info I have about it has come direct from Lillie,
Now everyone is wondering what I've told you...
And whether I actually got it right
Top   #70

 




 


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