Reading the 5s

wheelie

ihcoyc said:
This is pretty much my take on the fives as well. All of the fives have to do with a judgment or decision that needs to be made to resolve a conflict. Something needs to be cut out or discarded. With coins, not enough money to go around. With cups, emotional trauma and mountains from molehills. With batons, pure physical competition. With swords, an argument you can't win.

This also relates to traditional playing card reading, in which fives typically indicate some kind of illness, made more particular by the suit.

I have studied a little Cartomancy but don't recall the focus on illness for the 5s. I only read two e-books and watched one YouTube series, just to get a few different angles and find some satisfying numerology.

Here's some info from my Dictionary of Symbols that might explain my confusion over 5 representing illness or loss, failure or incompleteness:

Five in some Asian contexts is the whole: four compass points + the center.
It's the center of the first 9 numbers.
It's harmony of the first even and odd numbers (2 + 3).
It's the Pythagorian nuptial number, a sign of marriage.
Hermetic symbolism has the five-pointed star and five-petalled flower at the center of the cross, a marriage of principles of Heaven (2) and Earth Mother (3).
Ancient writers recorded 5 universal laws, 5 elements (China), 5 colors, 5 metals, 5 senses, etc., etc., etc.
5 was the Maya symbol of perfection.

wheelie

Thirteen said:
If your aim is to match up tarot with your Christianity, then forget Kabbalah. Go instead with Connolly. I'll add more on that below...

It *DOES* work if you think of it as "thy will be done." First consider it as "10" five times (the 10's which are the Wheel of Fortune) for the slaves, land owners and those in debt. Now consider the "5" done ten times for the slaveowners, landowners and those who'd loaned out the money. THEY lost all that. And THEY were the ones who had to take that loss with grace and say "thy will be done."

5's in the tarot are mostly about dealing with loss...but they're also about being a "good" winner. In the 5/Swords, neither those who have lost nor the winner are taking either with grace. The losers are sore and vowing vengeance (or seem to be) and the winner is gloating. What would the Hierophant say? He'd say there was a divine reason for the loss to the losers and a divine reason for the win to the winner and that both must be humble and accepting. The Talmud says that when the Red Sea drowned the Egyptians, god stopped the angels singing about it. And Jesus certainly wasn't in favor of winners boasting or losers whining. In Judeo-Christain thought, winners as well as losers have to accept that both happen for a reason, try to understand that reason, and accept god's will with grace.

Well, Crowley's reputation was fearsome in Edwardian times, not so much now. If you really go over what he did you'd say, "Lots of sex and drug and saying things to shock people...yawn." That kind of stuff, being done openly by a respectable gentleman scholar was "shocking! shocking! shocking!" back then, but "what else is new?" now.

That said, no, the Thoth deck is not Christian-compatible. The single most Christian compatible deck is the Connolly (http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/connolly/). If you really want to go with images and interpretations that are far more Christian focused, I'd get that deck and maybe, if it appeals to you, one or more of her tarot books. It's a lovely deck. Like looking at stained glass windows. And there's a Connolly study here on AT (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=36315)

First about the numbers. I do want to read them legitimately and not just force the tarot into my mindset per se. I read a lot of philosophy and literature, look at myth and art of all kinds.

I know the numbers can shift meanings in different context. And, as you point out, numbers can have two meanings at the same time. Many people would say that the number 13 is unlucky, for example, but my first-born daughter was born on the 13th. Lucky for me! It is said the Israelites left Egypt on Friday the 13th. Lucky for them!

Reading tarot can get very personal, however.

I'm NOT looking for strictly Christian interpretations, yet I figure if something is absolutely antithetical or antagonistic to my faith, it won't be authentic for me.

I have seen that there are some sanitized tarot decks, and that might be a direction to explore. Maybe, maybe not. I don't go in for Christian fiction, for example. I like to read good fiction and then reflect on it with my own heart and mindset.

Anyway, I super-duper, duper appreciate your kindness and patience, Thirteen.

Reading the 5s

wheelie

wheelie