Kris Hadar Judgment

Abrac

Hi everyone. I've been viewing the posts here for awhile now and decided to join up. I've enjoyed reading your views on the different Tarot cards and decks. The other day I purchased the Hadar Marseille deck, and noticed on The Judgment card there's a water droplette over each figure's head, and seven "yods" spread out across the scene as well. Six of the yods are red, blue, and green. A seventh is situated behind the woman's head and is gold. I've never seen these on any Judgment cards of other decks. Can anyone shed a little light on this for me? Also, in this particular deck The Judgment is on front of the box like it has a special sgnificance or something(?)
 

Fulgour

hello fools fool

Here's a link to the card in question
(click on):
XX LE IVGEMENT

Welcome to Aeclectic :) Tarot
 

mythos

Kris Hadar offers a course (free) on his deck and reading system in both French and English. You can get lectures more quickly if you donate though. Mind you, I work at the pace of a snail, so slower delivery is fine with me. It is excellent, in spite of the fact that he can get a bit pedantic at times. But then so can I ... difference, he offers much learning ... I don't, so I'm not complaining. The link is: http://krishadar.com

Enjoy
mythos :)
 

jmd

I must admit that of the newer Marseille-style decks around, I quite like what Kris Hadar has done to quite a number of cards: whilst on the one hand maintaining integrity to the tradition, on the other altering in subtle manner details that can become quite meaningful.

I'm not sure what aspect you have not seen on other Marseille decks, fools_fool. In terms of the general 'yods', they are there on the principal deck that the Hadar appears based on: that it, the Payen/Dodal (I attach the Dodal from circa 1701 to show the similarities).

There are quite a few (including myself) who tend to give symbolic initiatic meaning to the central character being the only one that appears to arise out of the 'chamber of initiation'. Though, of course, the reference is more clearly, at a more literal level, that the last Judgement announced by Michaël.

That Hadar has decided to have the 'drops' (symbolic of dew drops, rather than water drops - a subtle difference) above each head as clearly droplet does seem to suggest a double 'baptism' (and hence again initiation): the baptism of water/dew, and that, with the seven others, of the tongues of Fire.
 

Attachments

  • XX.jpeg
    XX.jpeg
    47.5 KB · Views: 179

Abrac

Your replys have been most helpful, thank you. jmd, I like the tongues of fire analogy, and thanks for the Dodal image. On Hadar's Judgment, the droplette above the central figure, rising toward the angel, is the only golden one. This certainly could symbolize initiation, rebirth, the Great Work, or a number of other similar ideas.
 

venicebard

Oh I see what Dodal was trying to do: he knew at least that this card symbolized strife, hence he was reacting to the introduction of musketry as the mainstay of tactics, not satisfied with mere pikes emanating from the cloud of war. But he (it appears) and especially Hadar make a very grave error here in not realizing the importance of NOT having the trumpet come up to the mouth: in Grimaud there is a very clear crescent-moon shape (white) as marked barrier between mouth of trumpet and mouth of man. This is because, unbeknownst to Hadar, this trump was originally designed to symbolize taurus-the-throat, or where 20-Ss-straif-blackthorn-alias-tzaddi-old-Semitic-banner-in-war falls in both bardic calendar and Hebrew wheel of 12 ‘simple’ letters. The taurus sign is all over this card, Gabriel’s large wings giving the circular war-cloud horns, the smaller wings giving Gabriel’s head (circularity emphasized by halo) horns, and the barrier itself is the crescent the horns represent.

It’s funny, I just now noticed the similarity of the back of the central figure’s head to that of the twins in V LePape: he is evidently the heroic twin being drafted by the community for the last fight (ala Beowulf), this being where that occurs in the yearly drama. Thanx for inadvertently being the source of my illumination.
 

Abrac

Nice insight venicebard. I've never thought of the XX card in terms of warfare, but it all fits, the title of the card, the spikes, clouds, etc.
 

Teheuti

jmd said:
I attach the Dodal from circa 1701 to show the similarities). ...
There are quite a few (including myself) who tend to give symbolic initiatic meaning to the central character being the only one that appears to arise out of the 'chamber of initiation'.
If you go back to the image that jmd included (the oldest extant Marseille image) you'll see that the "angel" is clearly a vampire with two fangs extending from his mouth. The people below are just as clearly enthralled. They are being drawn forth from their coffins after death to take on their new vampire status. Later drawings of this card tried to hide this shocking revelation.

Mary
 

prudence

Teheuti said:
If you go back to the image that jmd included (the oldest extant Marseille image) you'll see that the "angel" is clearly a vampire with two fangs extending from his mouth. The people below are just as clearly enthralled. They are being drawn forth from their coffins after death to take on their new vampire status. Later drawings of this card tried to hide this shocking revelation.

Mary


Teheuty, I am very intrigued by your words...and I do see the fangs you mention. I am unsure about this card, it has always been one of the most difficult ones for me to grasp, especially while doing a reading. This image is so mysterious to me, what the intended meanings were, I feel baffled to understand. Did you find this in your historical research? And what might that message be, if we are to look upon the resurrected person as a vampire?
 

le pendu

Teheuti said:
If you go back to the image that jmd included (the oldest extant Marseille image) you'll see that the "angel" is clearly a vampire with two fangs extending from his mouth. The people below are just as clearly enthralled. They are being drawn forth from their coffins after death to take on their new vampire status. Later drawings of this card tried to hide this shocking revelation.

Mary

I think JMD would agree that the oldest extant TdM is not the Dodal but the Noblet, circa 1650 rather than circa 1700.

Here is a link to (unfortunately small versions of) it:
http://tarot-history.com/Jean-Noblet/pages/le-jugement.html

Not sure I see the Vampire teeth here.. but perhaps that's just another thing on the list that people will use to discount the Noblet.. no vampires on the Judgement card.

Umm.... would be laughing if I thought this was a joke, but having to try to wrap my mind around the possiblility that this is a serious consideration. No insult intended.. just taken fairly off guard here.

robert