l Tarocchi dei Visconti Sforza (ll Meneghello)

jackdaw said in the other thread about the version she bought:

The Three of Swords (missing from the original deck) is just a copy of the Five with the two surplus Swords removed from the picture, leaving lighter coloured sword-shaped patches

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I noticed that when consulting Kaplan today--it really put me off. When they redid the deck for the next edition, I think they got Scapini to do the 3 of Swords up properly and do some vines in there instead of retaining the poorly done fake. (I think I've got that right--you can go a bit buggy trying to keep these editions straight.)

I'm still torn. The large Il Meneghello is 50.60 Euros plus shipping. I'm not working so can't afford it, and I can't afford the smaller version either but I didn't want a small version because it seemed too normal to add to the collection.

You know, when you spend the bucks you want something big, something that makes you gasp because it's so wonderful and different. For an extra 20 Euros I can get the eye popping big boy (Peter Ustinov notwithstanding.) Perhaps I'll just save for the large version. I too like the idea of seeing all the tack holes and rips up close.

I like the gold foil editions by LS although I haven't heard anyone speak of the mini version, which apparently doesn't have the gold foil but retains the art from the 2002 edition. (Which I think I like better than the 2000 edition, although Atanassov's 2000 Devil that looks like a grotesque from a medieval manuscript IS tempting.)



Well, apparently I am not alone in my confusion, which is not helpful but somehow comforting.

[Edited to say: Think the new LS Golden Tarot of Visconti Grand Trumps might suit me better. I already have a Marseille deck with pips, so I don't really need more pips. Plus it's only $13.22 CAD--affordable at some point.]

I've got the Lo Scarabeo 2002 (judging from the comparison scans) and it's just beautiful. I got it used for about ten bucks at a local bookshop, in perfect condition. Amazon.com UK is showing some used ones of this at reasonable prices, too. If you don't care about the pips, the Tarot Garden has the 22-card version for quite a low price. It's a wonderful deck, but I don't think you have to hurry hurry hurry....it's not like they'll all disappear tomorrow! Good luck w/ your decision!

Thanks for the link to the replacements le pendu.

Very cool.

Yes, the LS reproduction does have the Three of Swords recreated better, room, so that it does not look like a doctored Five.

I have the second version of the Lo Scarabeo gold - with the less demonic Devil, I guess. But I would have preferred the first!

As for the Dal Negro/Longobardica version room quotes me on, it is a stunning deck, but too big for my liking. I would be very interested to see the piccolo Il Meneghello version. But keeping only one, I went with shiny gold

jackdaw* said:

Yes, the LS reproduction does have the Three of Swords recreated better, room, so that it does not look like a doctored Five.

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Okay, but there were 3 versions of the U.S. Games deck? One with black and white stand-ins for the missing cards; the second version with. . . .oh I'm gettin mixed up. Somewhere along the line Scapini actually redid the 3 of Swords so that it looked natural in the US Games version--maybe a third version I think.

[Note: I am constantly amazed how the history afficionados can keep these versions and styles straight in their minds. I get frustrated at having to hunt and peck for the information repeatedly in books. I don't remember it all.]

I was looking at the doctored five again--it looks like they used white-out on the card. Perhaps in the days before computer technology was up to snuff, that's the best they could do? Funny about that card--I could never figure out why they didn't take the 2 of Swords and just bonk another sword down the middle--the spacing would have been right--see the 3 of Wands, that's exactly what it looks like.

I have the second version of the Lo Scarabeo gold - with the less demonic Devil, I guess. But I would have preferred the first!

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The first one has that delightful grotesquery on the Devil. I found it difficult to choose between the two editions for that reason.

I would be very interested to see the piccolo Il Meneghello version.

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Yes, I would like to see more cards since Cerulean mentioned somewhere that the colour was more faded on this Il Meneghello reproduction in comparison to the Dal Negro. I thought all his decks were faded like that, contributing to the overall antique feel?

US Games, to the best of my knowledge, only released one edition of the Visconti-Sforza. Scapini did recreate the missing cards for that one. He also recreated the missing cards for the Cary-Yale Visconti.

Dal Negro and Monumenta Longobardica released another one, which is for all intents and purposes identical but for the packaging.

Lo Scarabeo released 2 gold editions with the different Devil and Tower cards.

Do a Tarot Garden search for "Visconti" and you will see these versions and others. Or the link to Felicity's website (given earlier here) will show the Devils and Towers from these.

room said:

I like the gold foil editions by LS although I haven't heard anyone speak of the mini version, which apparently doesn't have the gold foil but retains the art from the 2002 edition. (Which I think I like better than the 2000 edition, although Atanassov's 2000 Devil that looks like a grotesque from a medieval manuscript IS tempting.)

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I recently got an LS mini. It doesn't have foil. But it does have the earlier replacement of the Devil and the Tower, the ones that look less like RWS and more like medieval manuscript illustrations. That was a pleasant surprise, since I prefer those and thought I was too late to get a deck that had them.

I got the Visconti Grand Trumps at the same time, and am very pleased with them, as well.

Thanks, I've seen the comparison, but it doesn't cover what I am talking about. I hope this clears it up--I should have gone upstairs and got the books and copied the references--being lazy and unclear--my apologies.

I'll cross-reference for you--the Kaplan encyclopedia Volume 1 refers to other editions:

1) The first five hundred Visconti-Sforza decks reproduced by Grafica Gutenberg and U.S. Games. The missing cards were reproduced as composite line drawings. No artist cited. (Referenced page 71 Volume 1)

The three of swords was created by deleting the two inner crossed swords from the five of swords cards (Referenced page 25--Kaplan encyclopedia Volume 2)

2) The second edition of the reproduced Visconti-Sforza deck, also published in 1975 shown here (page 71 volume 1--this is not the edition by Scapini, but he doesn't cite the artist--definitely different than Scapini's version.)

Cards done in colour--3 of swords done exactly the same as the first edition.

3) The third edition with cards by Luigi Scapini. Published in 1986, 8 years after volume 1 of the Encyclopedia, which doesn't reference a third edition obviously.

In this edition, Scapini did the same thing of deleting the two swords from the five, but then extyended the foliage to cover the blank spaces. (Page 25 again, volume 2 Kaplan)

Ah. Thanks for clarifying. I don't have the Encyclopedias (yet, hope to some time in the New Year), so I missed those.

shaveling said:

I recently got an LS mini.

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Thanks, I wondered what this was like in comparison to the regular deck.

If you bought the regular size LS gold deck, and cut the borders off, you could thereby create an unnumbered/untitled deck that emulates the historical photo-reproduction, yet has more clarity in the repainted details, along with decorative gold foil.

Another option for those of us who can't afford the lovely Il Meneghello version(s) but aren't exactly happy with what else is available.

A bit of adventurous tweaking when funds become available. . .