Thoth Study Group - The Hierophant

Parzival

Hierophant

I really appreciate this www interpretation/meditation on this amazing arcanum--- it truly is a greater mystery.One further quick observation for now:there are actually two elephant heads ,each facing out, from the Hierophant's shoulders and throat chakra.It seems to me(maybe I'm mistaken) that the left ear is down over the elephant,while the right ear juts out.All this emphasizes the patient,perceptive listening of elephant/Hierophant--this is certainly a kind of strength,less obvious than logging with elephant trunks.Other thoughts?
 

Centaur

Re: Hierophant

Frank Hall said:
It seems to me(maybe I'm mistaken) that the left ear is down over the elephant,while the right ear juts out.All this emphasizes the patient,perceptive listening of elephant/Hierophant--this is certainly a kind of strength,less obvious than logging with elephant trunks.Other thoughts?

I really like that take. I am off to take a look at the card in order to check out the ears! Hehe. :)
 

RedMaple

There is so much going on in this card, that I usually detest in other decks. I agree with others that it is not the usual patriarchal Christican Pope, but rather someone who has studied, who has kept the child's heart (the child inside the star in the Heart Chakra), and who is being illuminated by the Goddess within. I love the elephants, also. I thought immediately of the Indian Ganesha, the precursor to Buddha, powerful but gentle. (Images of Buddha keep the long ears and the bulbous head. I think that is a Buddha in the upper right, because of the long ears.)

I believe his hand is in a yogic position of the teacher. Also, the bull is behind him....I think this is important, that somehow he has subdued the powerful, animal desires so they are under his control.

About the Hebrew letter "vav". It does mean "nail" but not in the sense of "being nailed to the cross." Rather, it is a connector. "Vav" is "and", connecting one thing to another.

It is also about light, which I think is particularly important, given the strong light in the card. The light is both one that discriminates and separates each thing, so things can have individuality that can be appreciated; and also the light that lets us see how all the separate things connect and inter-relate into one organic whole.

"Vav" also is said to connect all the 22 letters. I have to think on how that relates to the Hierophant.

His head appears to be in the center of a lotus mandala, around which circles a snake, and a dove is flying down -- a blessing from Venus.

The colors, the meditative pose, all seems to suggest one well on the way to englightenment. But, I think it likely that this figure is a Boddhisattva - one who continues to be reborn until all creatures reach enlightenment. That is a teacher I can respect, and I am grateful for this card.
 

Centaur

RedMaple said:
The colors, the meditative pose, all seems to suggest one well on the way to englightenment. But, I think it likely that this figure is a Boddhisattva - one who continues to be reborn until all creatures reach enlightenment. That is a teacher I can respect, and I am grateful for this card.

Thanks for the interesting post RedMaple. I like your take on this particular card. From what I have read of Crowley (not much I hasten to add!), he was very much into Yoga throughout his life, and indeed there are other Yogic symbols littered throughout the Thoth.

So, do you relate this specific card to Buddhism and Buddhist ideas? Forgive me if I am babbling again. I might not be making much sense tonight, as I am feeling a bit tired! HEHE. :)
 

RedMaple

quote from Centaur:

Thanks for the interesting post RedMaple. I like your take on this particular card. From what I have read of Crowley (not much I hasten to add!), he was very much into Yoga throughout his life, and indeed there are other Yogic symbols littered throughout the Thoth.

So, do you relate this specific card to Buddhism and Buddhist ideas?


Well, it's certainly not exclusively Buddhist. But there were elements of it that suggested the Bodhisattva to me. I'm not sure why that image would show up here, at so early a point on the journey. Perhaps it means a teacher encountered by the Fool on the Journey, and perhaps a place you come back to. After attaining the World, then it's back to the Fool, and the next journey round the wheel, UNLESS you've attained enlightenment, at which point you leave the wheel of birth and death. Bodhisattvas make the choice to put off final ehnlightenment and come back to teach others.

That seems fascinating to me in regards to this card. That the World card can lead to the Hierophant.

But there are many non-Buddhist elements on the cards, the High Priestess, the Star of David, the dove, the nails. In fact, I do have some doubts as to whether it is ultimately useful to appropriate symbols from so many different traditions. I wonder about the ethics of it...what does it mean to use people's sacred symbols without having a relationship to the tradition or the people from which they came?

I am struggling with questions about this deck. Thanks for listening.
 

isthmus nekoi

RedMaple said:
In fact, I do have some doubts as to whether it is ultimately useful to appropriate symbols from so many different traditions. I wonder about the ethics of it...what does it mean to use people's sacred symbols without having a relationship to the tradition or the people from which they came?

I too was stunned by the numerous different systems encorporated into Thoth. To his credit, Crowley was very very well travelled and as far as I know, he would immerse himself in the foreign cultures he was in: learning their language, wearing their clothes, doing their drugs ;) and so on. If you think about his background (Victorian England, colonialist paradigms of thought), it's quite remarkable.
 

Centaur

RedMaple said:
Well, it's certainly not exclusively Buddhist. But there were elements of it that suggested the Bodhisattva to me. I'm not sure why that image would show up here, at so early a point on the journey. Perhaps it means a teacher encountered by the Fool on the Journey, and perhaps a place you come back to. After attaining the World, then it's back to the Fool, and the next journey round the wheel, UNLESS you've attained enlightenment, at which point you leave the wheel of birth and death. Bodhisattvas make the choice to put off final ehnlightenment and come back to teach others.

Thanks for clarifying your original post. I agree that it is very interesting that the World could be linked to the Hierophant. I remember reading that Crowley's Hierophant can represent a higher spiritual being. I am sure Duquette refers to this card as depicting the relationship between an earthly human-being, and his or her spirit guide. From what I have read, a spirit guide can be defined as an enlightened being who has lived through many incarnations, until reaching the stage of spiritual helper. So, in that sense, the spiritual helper is enlightened; almost like the Bodhissatva?
 

RedMaple

originally posted by Centaur

Thanks for clarifying your original post. I agree that it is very interesting that the World could be linked to the Hierophant. I remember reading that Crowley's Hierophant can represent a higher spiritual being. I am sure Duquette refers to this card as depicting the relationship between an earthly human-being, and his or her spirit guide. From what I have read, a spirit guide can be defined as an enlightened being who has lived through many incarnations, until reaching the stage of spiritual helper. So, in that sense, the spiritual helper is enlightened; almost like the Bodhissatva?

Yes, I think the difference is that in Buddhist belief, the Boddhisattva puts off complete enlightenment, and is reborn as a human teacher. Duquette sounds as though he's talking about someone who's become a spirit guide but is no longer in a material body. I haven't read Duquette, but it is interesting that I was able to see a similar idea in the card.
 

RedMaple

isthmus nekoi said:
I too was stunned by the numerous different systems encorporated into Thoth. To his credit, Crowley was very very well travelled and as far as I know, he would immerse himself in the foreign cultures he was in: learning their language, wearing their clothes, doing their drugs ;) and so on. If you think about his background (Victorian England, colonialist paradigms of thought), it's quite remarkable.

Yes, I see what you mean. At the same time, it was (is) part of the colonialist paradigm to exoticize and appropriate. Is the idea to have the cards be readable by people who are from different cultural backgrounds? Or to create an intellectual puzzle (as I feel TS Eliot did as a poet) that requires an educated elite to understand it?
 

isthmus nekoi

RedMaple said:
Yes, I see what you mean. At the same time, it was (is) part of the colonialist paradigm to exoticize and appropriate. Is the idea to have the cards be readable by people who are from different cultural backgrounds? Or to create an intellectual puzzle (as I feel TS Eliot did as a poet) that requires an educated elite to understand it?

Hm, given what I know about Crowley, I'd bet the latter although the educated elite would specifically refer to those in more esoteric fields of study. Although he ascribed to the notion that "every man and woman is a star", he was also extremely scathing when refering to the "mindless herd" so to speak. I think the Book of Thoth shows that he has little regard for those w/o training in the glut of systems he employs.