Apples Anyone?

RLG

Yygdrasilian said:
I haven’t rejected the ‘prior-knowledge-as-cheating’ critique for the sake of some personal vanity, as that would be poor etiquette. Rather, it incorrectly represents the process by which One would have designed this ciphertext. You see, if these integers were the basis of the Trumps’ organization & enumeration, One would have known those values to begin with. To call that cheating is like calling an architect dishonest for knowing trigonometry. As the cycles in question were known by Ptolemy and described in his Almagest, it is feasible that this system is at least that old (2nd century AD), if not older.

You are misrepresenting my position here. It is obvious that if someone wanted to encode planetary cycles, they would have to know the values of those cycles ahead of time. Duh!

But... if someone did not know the values, and wanted to discover them by using your alleged encoding via the tarot cards, they would have no way of doing so, because there is no algorithm to your 'ciphertext'.

Let me say this in another way so that it is perfectly clear -- if you don't already know the value of Mercury's orbital period, you cannot figure it out by using the tarot cards, because there is no methodical way to find the answer.

You, the creator of this theory, found the answer because you knew it already.

Now let's say I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to astronomy, and I have no idea of the orbital period of Mars. I decide to figure it out by using tarot cards. I come up with lots of numbers. But which one/s is/are correct?

Let's see; the sun card = 19, and the zodiac cards sum to 127 = 73, and the elements reduce to 32 = 5.

19 x 73 x 5 = 6935.

Let's see, is that the orbital period of Mars? Well, I'm not sure. But it must be significant of something. Is it the Metonic cycle. I'm not sure, (actually it's not, but it's close). In fact, I don't even know what the Metonic cycle is, since I'm ignorant of astronomy. Is this cycle even hidden in the tarot? I'm not sure, but now I'm told it correlates the sun and the moon cycles, so naturally I look at the numbers for the sun and the moon cards, but combining them in all sorts of ways, with and without other cards, I can't figure it out. At least I don't think I have figured it out, but then, since I don't know what the answer actually is, I have no way of knowing if I ever arrive at it in the first place. Maybe I'm better off looking for the value of the speed of light...but I'm not sure if I should use meters or feet, kilometers or miles. It's a real quandary.

There are some other problems with your theory, (particularly the fact that it is not really based on the tarot), but I've spent enough of my time on it already, (and you've spent none of your time addressing those critiques). I only post this to clarify a position of mine that you either did not understand or are accidentally misrepresenting. But since I don't plan on discussing this any more, I will summarize my main disagreements with you:

your 'ciphertext' has no algorithm to unambiguously reveal the numbers it allegedly hides

your theory is based on the Hebrew kabbalistic correspondences, and is only tangentially related to tarot. these correspondences have never been demonstrated to display any 'ordinal' numeration, which is vital for your theory to make any sense.


you answer the first objection by saying that of course the puzzle is to be figured out via lateral thinking. but the fact remains that no one can know if it has been figured out unless they know the correct answer from another source, which vitiates the need for a puzzle in the first place.


you insist on conflating the tarot and the hebrew correspondences, and then answer the second objection by saying that your numbers show that the tarot was encoded with this information. your evidence is in the numbers only and nothing else. so your conclusion becomes your premise. this begs the question.

I don't see how you expect your theory to be accepted without any evidence that it is actually true. you need to have evidence that there is an algorithm in the pattern of numbers found in the tarot, and that there was a deliberate plan to create the tarot trump numbers based on hebrew letter correspondences.

you wanted people to think about your theory? well, i did you the courtesy of thinking about it, and that's my response.
 

Yygdrasilian

One Cup Pours Into Another

11=8
RLG said:
There are some other problems with your theory, (particularly the fact that it is not really based on the tarot), but I've spent enough of my time on it already, (and you've spent none of your time addressing those critiques). I only post this to clarify a position of mine that you either did not understand or are accidentally misrepresenting. But since I don't plan on discussing this any more, I will summarize my main disagreements with you:

your 'ciphertext' has no algorithm to unambiguously reveal the numbers it allegedly hides
231, the sum of our Triumphs = 22nd Triangle, 11th Hexagon, & 8th Octahedron. Being such a versatile figurate number, able to change into so many different forms, both Sepher Yetzirah & Tarot recognize its ‘mathemagical powers’. In its guise as the 8th Octahedron (13 courses), One may see how the 6th Pythagorean triplet (see Element 47, above) ‘plugged’ into the CROSS (a= 25π) is in tune with the Golden Spiral as its weaves through the Octave... biting its’ own tail:

13th Interval
01 = 1
----------0 : C = 22nd semi-tone ][ 22:14 = π/2 :phase shift sinusoidal wave unison-octave
12 ][14th Interval ]...unite by thine ART [ 1100/14 = 25π ][ 1100’per sec.=speed of sound
02 = 5
----------1 : C#
11
03 = 14
----------2 : D
10
04 = 30
----------3 : D#
09
05 = 55
----------4 : E
08
06 = 91
----------5 : F
07 : 4/CROWN
07 = 140
----------6 : F#
06 [ 176:56 = π ][ 56= 4x14 =6th Tetrahedral
11 = 176 : Mercury spin-orbit resonance=3:2
----------7 : G
05
09 = 201
----------8 : G#
04
10 = 217 : degrees ‘advanced’ between synodic periods (+1˚) Venus-Earth
----------9 : A = 440hz ][ 440/7:5 = 100π ][ 3:2=Perfect Fifth
03= 226 : Venus orbit (+1 day)
08
----------10 : A#
02
12 = 230
----------11 : B
01 = 13th Interval : Death
13 = 231

This -13- ( 8☿ ) -5-3 |♀| 2- sequence divides the Octahedron into 1-1-1 sections that demonstrate a fundamental relationship between the Octave and the golden ratio. One should Note the relevance of Tarot’s traditional transposition of 8 & 11 within this context.

8=11