Le Fanu
Aeon418 said:
Sure. They could have included surplus versions of so many cards as so many versions were done, but I suppose as the Magus is such an important card in the development of the deck...
is there only one version of Thoth that have 3 magus?
Sure. They could have included surplus versions of so many cards as so many versions were done, but I suppose as the Magus is such an important card in the development of the deck...
Aeon418
Like Thoth = The Magus. Sure.Le Fanu said:
But the answer to the 3 Magi is in the hands of A.G.Mueller. They are the ones who selected those particular rejects and included them in the deck.
chriske
Lon sez ...
For me, DuQuette put the final nail in the 3 wise men coffin.
"By no stretch of imagination did Crowley intend to create 24 trumps or an 80 card tarot deck. Any theory or suggestion to the contrary would have him spinning in his grave (if he had one) and displays a profound ignorance of Crowley and The Book of Thoth. Crowley approved only one Magus card for inclusion in the Thoth Tarot"
He then goes on to explain the AGM printing process as Aeon explained earlier.
Good enough for me.
Now from an artistic angle, the painting being discussed here is outstanding. It also graces the front of the 1940s Exhibition booklet where the handwritten title on the card is given as the Magician instead of Magus.
For me, DuQuette put the final nail in the 3 wise men coffin.
"By no stretch of imagination did Crowley intend to create 24 trumps or an 80 card tarot deck. Any theory or suggestion to the contrary would have him spinning in his grave (if he had one) and displays a profound ignorance of Crowley and The Book of Thoth. Crowley approved only one Magus card for inclusion in the Thoth Tarot"
He then goes on to explain the AGM printing process as Aeon explained earlier.
Good enough for me.
Now from an artistic angle, the painting being discussed here is outstanding. It also graces the front of the 1940s Exhibition booklet where the handwritten title on the card is given as the Magician instead of Magus.
Yygdrasilian
On Profound Ignorance
While all this may be true, the question remains: Is there any formal documentation stating who, why, or when the decision was made to add the 2 cards?chriske said:
Could this be one of the "grotesque blunders" Crowley was referring to?chriske said:
Storm82
Aeon418 said:
there was pictures in the original Book of Thoth ?
ravenest
Le Fanu said:
I like the idea of the obvious 8 (magic / magus / hod etc) but ... urk, the composition! I call this card 'Dr. Octopus'.
P.S.
So ... if I put Dr. Octopus on a star map over Betelgeuse (because they have the same gematria) and my hexagram over the Sun, will the three wise men point to Krishnamurti's grave?
Aeon418
Yes. All 78 cards, just like in the modern reprints.Storm82 said:
Grigori
Some other alternate versions and draft versions can be seen at this site.
http://www.caduceusbooks.com/occultartgallery/harris/harris.html
http://www.caduceusbooks.com/occultartgallery/harris/harris.html
Mellaenn
Well, I am just a Thoth newbie, but here is an interesting thing. I have one of the decks from US Games that contains all three magi. I'm following this thread because I inadvertantly left them all in the shuffle for a self-reading just now and two of the three - neither of them the classic magus from AC's Book of Thoth - appeared in my spread.
In a Celtic Cross spread, one appears as what crowns me and the 8-armed magus that is my particular favorite magus appears as the outcome, or final card. In context with my other cards they reflect that there is a great deal of creational energy going on in my world (inner and outer) which is true. So these both seem somehow appropriate.
But I suppose I need to just pick one magus and only leave that in the deck. (Unless I want to increase the odds of magic appearing in my readings?)
In a Celtic Cross spread, one appears as what crowns me and the 8-armed magus that is my particular favorite magus appears as the outcome, or final card. In context with my other cards they reflect that there is a great deal of creational energy going on in my world (inner and outer) which is true. So these both seem somehow appropriate.
But I suppose I need to just pick one magus and only leave that in the deck. (Unless I want to increase the odds of magic appearing in my readings?)
Yygdrasilian
Whodunnit
Original key entry by Fr. H.B. in New York
1/26/90 e.v. ASCII conversion
by Bill Heidrick, T.G. of O.T.O.
Copyright (c) O.T.O.
LIMITED LICENSE Except for notations added to the history of modification, the text on this diskette down to the next row of asterisks must accompany all copies made of this file. In particular, this paragraph and the copyright notice are not to be deleted or changed on any copies or print-outs of this file. With these provisos, anyone may copy this file for personal use or research. Copies may be made for others at reasonable cost of copying and mailing only, no additional charges may be added.
***********************************************************************
http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/crowley-harris.html
I am not sure what it means, exactly, but am curious as to how events played out - both in terms of Atu I and the controlling interest/copyright. I get the impression going over their correspondence that their relationship rapidly deteriorated when it came time to publish this Tarot.
And it occurs to me that it is one thing to round out the deck sheets by adding two alternate cards, and quite another to obtain the license to print them. I wonder if this might be related to an aspect of the commercial publication of The Book of Thoth that I have found inconsistent with what seems to have been Crowley's wishes for this 'magical atlas.'
As he expressed an intent not to "prostitute the Sacred Wisdom of Thoth" by allowing it to be used for the "base and dishonest purpose" of fortune-telling or gambling, One is left to wonder at the inclusion of that poster giving instructions for the Celtic Cross spread and the booklet including Harris' divinatory descriptions for the cards.
I welcome any clarification on these issues and suspect they may relate to the presence of the extra Magi in question, be they superfluous or otherwise.
Original key entry by Fr. H.B. in New York
1/26/90 e.v. ASCII conversion
by Bill Heidrick, T.G. of O.T.O.
Copyright (c) O.T.O.
LIMITED LICENSE Except for notations added to the history of modification, the text on this diskette down to the next row of asterisks must accompany all copies made of this file. In particular, this paragraph and the copyright notice are not to be deleted or changed on any copies or print-outs of this file. With these provisos, anyone may copy this file for personal use or research. Copies may be made for others at reasonable cost of copying and mailing only, no additional charges may be added.
***********************************************************************
http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/crowley-harris.html
I've been looking for some documentation regarding the 3 Magi and, thus far, the closest I've come up with is this letter.Aleister Crowley said:
I am not sure what it means, exactly, but am curious as to how events played out - both in terms of Atu I and the controlling interest/copyright. I get the impression going over their correspondence that their relationship rapidly deteriorated when it came time to publish this Tarot.
And it occurs to me that it is one thing to round out the deck sheets by adding two alternate cards, and quite another to obtain the license to print them. I wonder if this might be related to an aspect of the commercial publication of The Book of Thoth that I have found inconsistent with what seems to have been Crowley's wishes for this 'magical atlas.'
As he expressed an intent not to "prostitute the Sacred Wisdom of Thoth" by allowing it to be used for the "base and dishonest purpose" of fortune-telling or gambling, One is left to wonder at the inclusion of that poster giving instructions for the Celtic Cross spread and the booklet including Harris' divinatory descriptions for the cards.
I welcome any clarification on these issues and suspect they may relate to the presence of the extra Magi in question, be they superfluous or otherwise.
