Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Tarot Forum

Confusion about different Kababala

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Beyond Tarot > Kabbalah & Alphabets


 
krad_hcf  krad_hcf is offline
Resident
 
Join Date: 07 Jun 2008
Location: HK
Posts: 28
krad_hcf 
Confusion about different Kababala


I saw differnt web or books have different kababala .
Is Kababala = Qababala = Cababala?
I am very confuse with different version of the content.
Can anybody help me ?
Top   #1
Ravenswing's Avatar
Ravenswing  Ravenswing is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 11 May 2002
Location: wondering around in the World of Innocence
Posts: 1,589
Ravenswing 
if it starts with a...


From my experience, (for the most part), if it starts with a "K", it's the hebrew mystical system, if it starts with a "Q" it's the western majickal system and if it starts with a "C" it's the "Christian" slanted system (I don't come across the "C" too often...)


fly well
ravenswing
Top   #2
Greg Stanton's Avatar
Greg Stanton  Greg Stanton is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 07 Jul 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Posts: 888
Greg Stanton 

That is interesting -- I'd never heard that the differences in spelling denoted different approaches to C-K-Q-abalah.

I will say that the Kabbalah used by the Western Magical Tradition IS Christian Kabbalah. Agrippa, Mathers, Levi, Crowley and the rest all reference the texts that Pico della Mirandola (1463-1494) had translated for him by Raymondo Moncada. These and other, later texts, have a distinct Christian slant and interpretation -- is not authentic Jewish Kabbalah. The Kabbalah as it was understood in renaissance Europe sprang from this corrupt, Christianized material, and the occultists (not knowing any better) followed suit.

I'm still not convinced that Kabbalah applies to the Tarot. Every author advocates different correspondences. Levi's are completely different from Mathers/Golden Dawn. Crowley largely copied his material from GD. Papus and Case are different from all of these, not to mention a slew of other writers who don't agree either.

If you really want to study Kabbalah, understand that you have to steep your mind in archaic Jewish religious texts, continually and over a period of many years. One wonders how great the reward...
Top   #3
bradford  bradford is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 15 Jun 2005
Location: SW Mtns, Colorado
Posts: 280
bradford 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenswing
From my experience, (for the most part), if it starts with a "K", it's the hebrew mystical system, if it starts with a "Q" it's the western majickal system and if it starts with a "C" it's the "Christian" slanted system (I don't come across the "C" too often...)
This is the growing consensus, with Christian Cabala being the rarest and of course the least articulate.
The Hebrew word is Qoph Beth Lamed He or QBLH as we transcribe it, so ironically, the Western Mystery Tradition spelling is truer to the Hebrew than the Jewish one.
Top   #4
ZenMusic  ZenMusic is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 06 Nov 2005
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 506
ZenMusic 

this works:
kabbalah - traditional Jewish
cabala - Christian adaptation
qabbalah - hermetic/magikal

there are several theads here on this...

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...abala+qabbalah

pay special attention to Scion's opinions, he's wise
Top   #5
krad_hcf  krad_hcf is offline
Resident
 
Join Date: 07 Jun 2008
Location: HK
Posts: 28
krad_hcf 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenMusic
this works:
kabbalah - traditional Jewish
cabala - Christian adaptation
qabbalah - hermetic/magikal

there are several theads here on this...

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...abala+qabbalah

pay special attention to Scion's opinions, he's wise

Thanks a lot it's very helpful.
Top   #6
venicebard's Avatar
venicebard  venicebard is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 31 Mar 2005
Location: California, USA
Posts: 935
venicebard 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Stanton
That is interesting -- I'd never heard that the differences in spelling denoted different approaches to C-K-Q-abalah.

I will say that the Kabbalah used by the Western Magical Tradition IS Christian Kabbalah. Agrippa, Mathers, Levi, Crowley and the rest all reference the texts that Pico della Mirandola (1463-1494) had translated for him by Raymondo Moncada. These and other, later texts, have a distinct Christian slant and interpretation -- is not authentic Jewish Kabbalah. The Kabbalah as it was understood in renaissance Europe sprang from this corrupt, Christianized material, and the occultists (not knowing any better) followed suit.
I would like to agree with this, as it is Hebrew Kabbalah that primarily moves me. But I have found two traditions preserved by the so-called Hermetic Kabbalah of today -- which as you say descends in part from Christian Kabbalah -- that I consider valid.

First is the application of planets to Sefirot, which is close to what I take as the correct such. Where they put the sun I put the year and raise the sun up to 2 (for which I can give sound argument), so that 1-10 yields the cycles from eternity (infinite cycle, the round itself) to 'today': 1-stars, 2-sun (great year, i.e. relation between equator and ecliptic), 3-Saturn, 4-Jupiter, 5-Mars, 6-year (ecliptic), 7-Venus, 8-Mercury, 9-moon, 10-earth (diurnal cycle, equator).

Second is the arrangement of letters on the paths of the 'Tree of Return': evidence points to this letter-arrangement (which even Crowley used) being the correct one, although of course the modern application of trumps to letters is grossly misdirected. Trumps were, I think, based not on Greek-Hebrew numbering but on the bardic numbering of the letters, as per the order: H(cheyt)=0, then A(=1) E I(zayin) O B M P(peh) F(but Heb. samekh) K G(=10) T D N L R(=15) S U(vav) Q Ii(yod) Ss(tzaddi) Aa(but Heb. teyt). The reason I take the path-assignments as correct is because it shows awareness of bardic numeration -- for example, E and I feed into 6 from 2 and 3, respectively, their bardic numbers -- and because the letters feeding into 6-Tiferet are, in order, the letters my deeper analysis of the order of the twelve 'simples' about the wheel had already placed on the inner or return side of the round (scorpio through aries): heh-zayin-yod-lamedh-nun-samekh, followed by the 'heat engine' of the round, ayin at leo, which represents the volatile vapors of mercury rising up into the upper half of the outer vessel to rule spring -- aries through gemini -- as O-furze, vowel of spring . . . but that's another story.
Quote:
I'm still not convinced that Kabbalah applies to the Tarot. Every author advocates different correspondences. Levi's are completely different from Mathers/Golden Dawn. Crowley largely copied his material from GD. Papus and Case are different from all of these, not to mention a slew of other writers who don't agree either.
Yes, these charlatans (yes, I will call them such) have really muddied the waters. Perhaps it is good, in the long run, as the credulous will be less likely to accept the (what I consider) correct, bardic correlations (Keltic bardic tradition having descended from the same ultimate source as the Hebrew), leaving knowledge of these to those who are willing to think things out and not simply take by rote. People such as yourself.
Top   #7




 


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Tarot Forum
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

Copyright © 1996 - 2019 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.