'Blind' reading

SunChariot

prudence said:
But would it have been "wrong" of ravenest to refuse to read for this guy if he had known the situation before he read?

It's a tough call, and considering ravenest's admitted issues with domestic violence and all it entails, I think the deception by omission on the sitter's part was rather scummy. Maybe weasel-ish is a better word? Though I guess it did spare ravenest from having terribly bruised and scraped knuckles! ;)
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My call is : no. I could not have read for someone either who has committed domestic abuse. And yes that is part of my past too, I left when he almost killed me and I could have not made it out alive. I was lucky that I did.

That being said we, as readers, have the right to not read for anyone that it does not feel right to us to read for. Just as we have the right to refuse to read on any question that we do not feel right about asking.

We are the readers, it is not an obligation to read if something does not feel right about it. Not to mention, that we usually CAN'T read well when we are not calm and centered. I know, for me I could not read for someone who seriously stressed me. Knowing the person had been abusive would be enough that I could not focus or read for them properly.

Babs
 

nisaba

MandMaud said:
I can't see that it would have been wrong to refuse to do the reading. Surely any reader has to reserve the right to refuse any reading?
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From what I understand, Ravenest didn't know about the situation until after the reading was finished. Refusal after the reading was over wasn't an option.

I still did the right thing to read honestly and fairly for his client. He is perfectly right in being angry and outraged, generally, about someone's unacceptable behaviour, but when they were a client, they were a client. Ravenest cannot blame himself for not giving them a hard time. When someone sits in front of you as a client, they are tacitly saying "I have a problem, I feel weak, help me." The guy may have been an abusive ratbag, but he knew his life was falling apart and wanted help. Ravenest gave him that help in good faith, not knowing about his conduct. There is no ethical dilemma there. I understand Ravenest's *anger* later on, but I think he behaved correctly during the reading, which seemed to be what he was concerned with.
 

MandMaud

nisaba said:
MandMaud said:
I can't see that it would have been wrong to refuse to do the reading. Surely any reader has to reserve the right to refuse any reading?
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nisaba said:
From what I understand, Ravenest didn't know about the situation until after the reading was finished. Refusal after the reading was over wasn't an option.
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Oh, I didn't mean that - I understand the sequence of events the same as you do (reading first, learning the background later). I simply meant that refusing to read is always "allowed", isn't it? If a reader just has a bad feeling about someone... so it wouldn't be *wrong* to refuse.

nisaba said:
I still did the right thing to read honestly and fairly for his client. He is perfectly right in being angry and outraged, generally, about someone's unacceptable behaviour, but when they were a client, they were a client. Ravenest cannot blame himself for not giving them a hard time. When someone sits in front of you as a client, they are tacitly saying "I have a problem, I feel weak, help me." The guy may have been an abusive ratbag, but he knew his life was falling apart and wanted help. Ravenest gave him that help in good faith, not knowing about his conduct. There is no ethical dilemma there. I understand Ravenest's *anger* later on, but I think he behaved correctly during the reading, which seemed to be what he was concerned with.
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Agreed, 100%.
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headincloud

I'm not convinced 'abusers' can all be lumped into one category because that's far too simplistic. Far from advocating their actions I do see a case against automatic judgement because the majority are the result of abuse or conditioning themselves. By far most abusers are created rather than born, usually a result of bad parenting though I appreciate there are a minority who choose to self serve by any means and don't give it a second thought until they're on their death bed, or so it seems but I wouldn't know.

Guess I'm fence sitting on the subject but if all professions looked at things with just one eye there would be no rehabilitation of any description and everyone would be condemned by their parents actions and their parents before them. If self understanding and awareness could be taught more efficiently and family patterns broken, whether by readers or the myriad of other professionals who lend themselves (after the event unfortunately) then surely that can only be a good thing and I think I'd choose to be a part of that if I ever progressed to that level but it would take great self awareness to refrain from judging and en pointe skill to read the cause rather than the effect and educate proficiently but if the person was open to it it's a potential avenue.

Clearly we need we educate the parents who are unknowingly producing monsters but the saddest thing of all is the parent sits there engulfed in personality disorders, bitterness, pain and warped judgements and openly states "well it never hurt me" as they're slowly but surely crushing their child to death creating a mini me. Why? Because we're blind to ourselves and we deny our pain accepting it as an integral part of ourselves.

Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." Amen

Going off topic here but I guess there are no right and wrongs, a counsellor who's lost her husband in a road traffic accident decides not to counsel those in a similar position is exercising her prerogative.
 

LupaGreenwolf

As people who provide a service in the moment, we don't generally get a chance to screen our clientele. And for the most part, we try to remain impartial, simply being the conduits for the readings themselves. That being said, I see no reason why we can't also maintain a policy of "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason" like other professionals. It's unfortunate that in this situation, the OP wasn't able to know ahead of time the nature of the client's situation, and I wouldn't blame her for being upset!
 

Essence of Winter

headincloud said:
I'm not convinced 'abusers' can all be lumped into one category because that's far too simplistic. Far from advocating their actions I do see a case against automatic judgement because the majority are the result of abuse or conditioning themselves. By far most abusers are created rather than born, usually a result of bad parenting though I appreciate there are a minority who choose to self serve by any means and don't give it a second thought until they're on their death bed, or so it seems but I wouldn't know.
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When it comes to that kind of abuse, there is an entire spectrum of behaviour from those who spontaneously snap to those who engage in systematic abuse that is intended as torture and there is a world of difference between the range of circumstances. If someone is trying to better themselves, I think it's important to help them but I can understand why some would not feel able to.

People getting violent with their partners isn't something I understand. I had a girlfriend who was quite abusive to me, sometimes physically when drunk but mainly verbally, when she would say really nasty things that were designed to be cruel. I am glad that I am not the kind of person who would lash out because there are some men who would be goaded into that, which is never an excuse, but I do see a difference between someone who had tormented their partner first and someone who had done nothing. In my case, I turned all the negative feelings upon myself and became depressed and suicidal.
 

SunChariot

headincloud said:
I'm not convinced 'abusers' can all be lumped into one category because that's far too simplistic. Far from advocating their actions I do see a case against automatic judgement because the majority are the result of abuse or conditioning themselves. By far most abusers are created rather than born, usually a result of bad parenting though I appreciate there are a minority who choose to self serve by any means and don't give it a second thought until they're on their death bed, or so it seems but I wouldn't know.

Guess I'm fence sitting on the subject but if all professions looked at things with just one eye there would be no rehabilitation of any description and everyone would be condemned by their parents actions and their parents before them. If self understanding and awareness could be taught more efficiently and family patterns broken, whether by readers or the myriad of other professionals who lend themselves (after the event unfortunately) then surely that can only be a good thing and I think I'd choose to be a part of that if I ever progressed to that level but it would take great self awareness to refrain from judging and en pointe skill to read the cause rather than the effect and educate proficiently but if the person was open to it it's a potential avenue.

Clearly we need we educate the parents who are unknowingly producing monsters but the saddest thing of all is the parent sits there engulfed in personality disorders, bitterness, pain and warped judgements and openly states "well it never hurt me" as they're slowly but surely crushing their child to death creating a mini me. Why? Because we're blind to ourselves and we deny our pain accepting it as an integral part of ourselves.

Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." Amen

Going off topic here but I guess there are no right and wrongs, a counsellor who's lost her husband in a road traffic accident decides not to counsel those in a similar position is exercising her prerogative.
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I agree that everyone deserves a second chance. And sometimes a third and fourth. A reading has the potential to help someone see the light. It could be the catalyst that helps change then and their behaviour.

But at the same time, because of my past, I would not be the right reader to do the reading in this situation. I don;t think I could keep my emotions out of this. I do have some post traumatic stress syndrome stemming just from that area. I think we do have ot know our limits. And if it ok (and the responsible thing to do) to refuse to read for someone if you don't believe you could do a good job on the reading. Reading, requires us to be unemotional and objective, The thought of abuse keeps me out of that state, because of my past.

But if I knew another reader who could read well for them, I could certainly recommend them to the person.



Babs
 

ravenest

nisaba said:
From what I understand, Ravenest didn't know about the situation until after the reading was finished. Refusal after the reading was over wasn't an option.

I still did the right thing to read honestly and fairly for his client. He is perfectly right in being angry and outraged, generally, about someone's unacceptable behaviour, but when they were a client, they were a client. Ravenest cannot blame himself for not giving them a hard time. When someone sits in front of you as a client, they are tacitly saying "I have a problem, I feel weak, help me." The guy may have been an abusive ratbag, but he knew his life was falling apart and wanted help. Ravenest gave him that help in good faith, not knowing about his conduct. There is no ethical dilemma there. I understand Ravenest's *anger* later on, but I think he behaved correctly during the reading, which seemed to be what he was concerned with.
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:thumbsup:

This one has been paying attention :)

I give people a disclosure or non-disclosure option before the reading. This raven does not lay eggs.

Thus is a strong and emotive issue and goes beyond TT. I have continued the non-tarot issues involved here in 'Get it off your chest' thread in Chat forum
 

headincloud

SunChariot said:
But at the same time, because of my past, I would not be the right reader to do the reading in this situation. I don;t think I could keep my emotions out of this. I do have some post traumatic stress syndrome stemming just from that area. I think we do have ot know our limits. But if I knew another reader who could read well for them, I could certainly recommend them to the person.
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Sorry to hear about this Babs hope you recover eventually. I would happily pass on troubled clients if there were specialist readers but then again we'd have no customers left.
 
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