Difficult subject...

@ being_chrysalis:
I can fully understand that many Native Americans are mad at whites who exploit their cultural belief systems. There are Germans here dressing up with NA fashioned jewellry or fixing dream catchers to their windows without even noticing or caring about meaning, they just think it looks cool and is more interesting than Celtic or Germanic tradition.

But I don't think you should feel bad about using tarot cards even when they are non Native American. You know your people much better than we do so you know who may know about you using tarot cards or not.

It is your life and there are many different ways leading to spiritual growth so walk the way which seems appropriate for you.

Fascinating thread...

I wonder if there's also an issue here to do with the tension between "preserving" a tradition that has lasted for hundreds, or even thousands, of years, and allowing it to change and adapt, like all living things, with the times.

This is further complicated when you have a tradition that has been fragmented and repressed almost out of existence. For that reason, I don't think you can really compare Native American tribal traditions with other religious or spiritual traditions that don't have the same history. You're not comparing like with like.

I don't think there is any clear answer to being-chrysalis's initial conundrum, but the process of spiritual evolution - personal and collective - is in itself an answer.

For some years, I was involved in the shamanic "community" in this country. There were quite a few people who did this thing of aping a kind of fake, mish-mash "Native-American" tradition. The more I learned about it, and the more I learned about the real history of the (many, different) NA nations, the more angry it made me. These people were all well-intentioned. Most were pretty ignorant about what they were doing. A few were well-informed and sincere. Were they wrong? I think so. Was it my place to tell them that? No. All I could do is vote with my feet and see it as part of my own personal spiritual learning.

The whole idea of a "tradition" is that it has a past that requires honouring. The ancestors - all our ancestors - deserve honour and respect, in whatever form that may take. Often it's simply a matter of asking the question and listening - really listening - to the answer.

Tradition and it's evolution

I fully understand the need to honor the traditions of ancesters. However, someone neglected to tell this to the 1st century Christian church when they decided the women would play a lesser role in the church, to the point where women are supposed to be seen and not heard. Not for me thanks.

Baroli52

Good point, Baroli52!

Danke!!

Baroli52

Aren't you glad it is no longer the 1st century, Baroli!

I went back and re-read being Chrysalis original post where she (I'm guessing) talks about resentment among American Indians towards whites for cultural theft, and I don't blame them. It ends up prettified and saccarine. (Since 'white' usually refers to western Europeans, let's let white=Western Europeans.)

But the white people brought the tarot over with them. So.......are the American and Australian aboriginals who use tarot commiting cultural theft themselves?

Francesca--playing Devil's Advocate and witholding her actual opinion.

good to see a lot of replies - more than I can sit and read right now. I just wanted to acknowledge all the thought that went into them (skimming over) and say I'll be back.

(Dealing with transition pains from dial-up to dsl)

thanks!

b_c

Ohh, I did that about two years ago. Trust me, once you get set up you will wonder why you ever had dial-up.

Baroli52

I had to read through that 3 times to try and understand what it is or what connection your thoughts were trying to express..The stripping of cultures or traditions is a common factor in the history of human life..At times the stripping is so brutal that it does make a culture feel and look distorted..
I think we as native americians have to remember that others reguardless of race doesn't make our culture..We have to up hold our cultures and traditions in our own family and work that knowledge out into the communities..I understand how non Native people view native Americans but,it's not for us as Natives to keep those negitive ideals as crutches,we should gleam from the positive veiws that Non Natives have about our culture/traditions..As you mentioned the vast opinions on how Natives veiw Tarot Card reading that again is an opinion of Non Native Americans as well..Not everyone is in favor of Tarot and some could careless..People from all walks of life are going to mix and match,take from all cultures and make it their own and maybe they don't fully understand it or don't want to understand it. that is a shame cause,there is always something more deeper in fully learning about another culture or another tarot deck..I'm guilty of looking into Non Native cultures and making their beliefs or traditions my own,I'm guilty of enjoying other cultures but,what i may view as not being disrespectful maybe a downright insult..Traditions,Culture,religion,these are all deep and very protected ideals on a personal level.We has a human race need to work in some level of tolerance and if we come across those that haven't fully taken the time to understand our cultures,beliefs,tradition we should take comfort and we are not alone in this mix and match movement and we should encourage and feel honored by those that have endured and shown the effort to learn..As for the world of Tarot,that world will always be apart of the Mix and Match movement as the race of Human readers have shown us..I take comfort in knowning that I can have my own way of reading Tarot but,i thank those that have stuck to the basic tradition of reading Tarot..

being_chrysalis,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I was wondering if there are any cards available, whether published or not, that you feel are true to any version of the Native American belief system.

If not, is that part of your aspiration to make your own deck?

Are there any information sources online that do present these beliefs authentically (again, as you perceive it)? I suspect many here would have an interest since (as you pointed out) there is a substantial amount of misinformation/misappropriation out there.