2008 Best Deck

WolfSpirit said:

I am sorry (and shocked !) to hear that these threads had such impact...
I was also surprised and shocked by the viciousness in the discussion threads, and I don't know why people care so much which deck comes first.
I was hoping that this year there was not going to be a poll because of these discussions, but it appears many people still like the poll.

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I actually thought the "de-enabling" thread would provide a useful outlet for people to pour scorn on decks and to some extent mean that the poll threads would be used less in that way. But that doesn't really seem to have helped. As I say, I don't mind if people say that they don't like a deck or don't like the artwork or whatever - I mean, there will never be consensus on that. But when it gets personal and unpleasant it just seems silly - and yes, I find it aversive. I'm not very keen on conflict when it's so unnecessary.

Many of the deck creators this year (well, 2008, you know what I mean) just seem straightforwardly enthusiastic about their work and keen to share it and talk about it, and it's been a pleasure to read some of the threads here. I hope everyone remembers that even us evil deck creators do have feelings.

I have two Baba decks, the Bohemian Gothic & the Baroque Bohemian Cats. I am sorry that you won't be making any new decks. I do hope that you reconsider.
K

baba-prague said:

But the personal innuendos are something I feel happy to have put behind me. I just hope the whole thing can be done in a more generous spirit all round this year because there has been such a diversity of decks - and creators - that it could be really good fun.

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I completly understand and respect your feelings, as well as those of other deck creators. I could see how seeing some of the posts and innuendous would be frankly demoralizing. But like I said I with Hearth Cricket in hoping that whatever idea for a deck you have may some day come to fruition. Like I said, MRP decks have opened me up so much and taught me so much. I would love the opportinity to have more of them.

I also hope the new threads that emerge following the voting will be more positive and focus more on why I voted for the deck I did vs. putting down other nominated decks and flat out being offensive to the deck creators. It is not a matter of not expressing oneself, but of highlighting ones choice of deck.

WolfSpirit said:

I think it is the fans of the decks who whip it into a frenzy, with repeated posts like "OMG this is the best deck that you ever made ! I can't wait to have it ! What am I saying, I am still waiting, my postman is torturing me ! I can't wait !" etc. etc.
I can never follow those threads for long

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Exactly. As one who has objected to the poll many times because of all this, I have never thought the actual creators did the whipping up. And I have said this several times, that it is the FANS who make a bit of a nonsense in the OMG threads.

WolfSpirit said:

I was hoping that this year there was not going to be a poll because of these discussions, but it appears many people still like the poll.

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Me too. BUT - if they would only call it "your favourite" rather than "the best" it would take out a lot of the arguments, both during and after.

The de-enabling thread isn't the answer; it cannot be. It's just silly and fun. In that thread we often de-enable decks we love with the most ridiculous comments. I have even done the BBC in my time, and I think baba is still speaking to me; she knows it is my favourite reading deck of all time, and the only one, other than the Big Three, that I had to have a spare of so that I have one in my second home !

But I shall not take part in the poll or in any thread that follows. I have not done so since a truly awful thread a few years ago. It isn't treated as fun, it does hurt people - and because the word "best" is used, it leads to arguments - because "best" is a value judgement. People say outrageous things about decks they have never seen, based on what they have read in threads where others (BUYERS/would be buyers, NOT creators) hype them up with the OMG comments mentioned by Wolfspirit.

ETA However for those who wish to know - the 2008 poll is up - here.

"Favorite" vs. "Best" seems like a not-too-convincing linguistic distinction.

The reason I LIKE a deck is because I DO think it's objectively good--and the one I like most, I like because I think it's best!

My two favorite decks for this year--the two I think are best--are Langustl and Pen.

I may have to flip a coin.

Voting is indeed up for this year for the Top Ten Most Popular Decks....

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/vote.shtml

Maybe if the vote was focussed on your "favourite deck", rather than the "best deck " it would be kept in mind that it was a personal opinion, no need for any arguments or criticism and no need to upset anyone.

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It already is. I've tried to make it very obvious over the years that it is a popularity poll, and not an objective list of 'the best' decks, but perhaps I need to try harder!

~ Solandia

Yay! Thankyou Solandia And don't worry about the favourite/best thing . . . people will always bicker good-naturedly about it no matter what

\m/ Kat

baba-prague said:

But in general, the sheer nastiness of (an element of) the discussions after the votes (which first time round actually amazed me) is one reason Alex and I very unlikely to do more decks. It's not the main reason, but it was certainly a factor when we discussed it.
But hey, it is SO nice to think that in future I won't have to bother with any more comments like this. Hah!

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Do you not get way more awesome comments and people who adore you then bad comments? I know when Scion saw you two he thought you were such wonderful people.

For my self I use the top 10 list as an idea what to buy for that year, I do ot pay attention the order only that it made the top 10 list and go through all the recommendation and reviews to decide. so it is almost free advertising.

I hope you make more decks I was wishing for a Celtic themed deck, I know they are many out there but not many are great.

I hooe you 2 do well and are happy that is the most important thing.

coyoteblack said:

Do you not get way more awesome comments and people who adore you then bad comments? I know when Scion saw you two he thought you were such wonderful people.

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I hope you're kidding CB! We are very ordinary people and I'm sure a bit of a disappointment in person as we aren't very Bohemian at all (well, a bit maybe at times - but not very!) We have lots of great feedback from users of the decks, and of course that's wonderful and we appreciate it a lot. We learn a lot from the comments too.

However, as I say, I'm relieved not to have to brace myself for the post-vote stuff that seems to happen every year. I hope this time around it will all be done without anyone feeling it's an opportunity for attacks - the really OTT stuff should ideally be kept to the "de-enabling" thread, where it's in the context of parody and can be taken as such.

We've all been harsh on decks we don't like at times, but somehow the poll seems to focus this and I've seen the discussion become really unpleasant in the past. Instead of enjoying being on the list, once or twice it's felt like an ordeal and I'm not sure I'd want to repeat the experience personally. I'm by no means the only one who feels like this.

But anyway, I've said my bit and I'm sure people want to talk about the actual decks now.

I have just about decided which deck to vote for, but it wasn't that easy this year.
___________
Oh, CB, we originally had three/four decks in the very early stage of planning - and one was sort of Celtic (though not straightforwardly). But all is on hold and probably long-term postponed or cancelled. Mainly because we want to focus for a while on product design - which we are enjoying hugely - and also on the "Bohemian Cats" work, which we want to develop over the next two years into something a bit wilder and more surreal.

But I think any more discussion about our plans should be moved to another thread now as this thread is about the poll.

P.S. Scion is pretty wonderful himself.

baba-prague said:

However, as I say, I'm relieved not to have to brace myself for the post-vote stuff that seems to happen every year. I hope this time around it will all be done without anyone feeling it's an opportunity for attacks - the really OTT stuff should ideally be kept to the "de-enabling" thread, where it's in the context of parody and can be taken as such.

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Trouble is that that IS a parody thread; people who want to say genuinely nasty stuff that they actually MEAN won't do it there; they really want to make a point. (I have just insulted a deck I am rather fond of there, for instance... never mind failed to defend my favourite....)

It's a nightmare.....

(((baba and you others who have suffered, you know who you are !!!)))