Solar Eclipse conjunct natal North Node

Ronia

Hi everyone. This year continues for me with significant astrological events. I first had a Solar Return New Moon (last Solar Return chart) in the 9th, then I had my progressed New Moon in 11th natal and 9th progressed, started this Solar Return with a Full Moon, now my Nodes are returning. My natal NN is at 21.54 Scorpio in the 10th house thus the Solar Eclipse on November 13/14 will conjunct it a while before the transiting NN returns to its natal position. The eclipse (and the NN) will trine my natal Moon in the 7th, ruler of the 7th in Cancer and sextile my natal Venuse in the 8th, ruler of 4 and 9.

Can you please shed some light on what this all could bring? I have no job or career and have been struggling in this area for three years already. Status? Is it an open door? I've read extensively on eclipses but conjunction with natal NN seems to not be covered well, at least in my sources.

Thanks. :)

P.S. The 10th is further emphasized by ruler Pluto in mutual reception with my Asc ruler Saturn who is on my natal Sun/Uranus conjunction in the 9th now.
 

Minderwiz

Can you either post or send your natal details please, so I can see the full picture.

In general I don't see eclipses as particularly significant for individuals, they are much more relevant to nations and peoples. However that can easily change if the eclipse happens on a personally sensitive spot , or accompanies another sensitive transit..

You will get a nodes return every 18 years, so they mark your entry into adulthood and, along with your Saturn Return, and third Jupiter Return,your role as head (or partner) of a household and parent. Of the three, Saturn and Jupiter are the best markers in general but it may well be that your Nodal Return chart has some interestin features.
 

Ronia

I'm sending you my birth details in a PM, Minderwiz.

My Saturn return was long time ago and was very beneficial for me. Although Saturn squared the Sun, I suddenly got a career, money, marriage, even my son was born at the end of Saturn's transit through the 7th where it is natally. The third Jupiter return was soon but I can't say it brought anything significant as an event, it just gave me strength to go through a tough period more easily.
 

Minderwiz

Some Preliminary Observations

I've been casting some charts and realised there's an important point I should have made earlier. When I cast your natal chart I got a North Node at 22 Degrees 44 minutes against your 21 degrees 54 minutes. The reason was that you cited the True Node, whereas SolarFire and Morinus have the Mean Node set as default.

The Nodes show the points where the Moon's travel around the zodiac cuts the ecliptic, as like all planets, yhe Moon is sometimes 'North' of the ecliptic ans sometimes 'South'. The North Node is the point where it crosses the ecliptic travelling South to North.

The difference between Mean and True Node is that the former gives the average movement of the Nodes and is always Retrograde. The latter 'wobbles' slightly and is sometimes Direct,. To calculate the True Node requires accurate measurement techniques and so this measurement tends to be a modern' rather than traditional distinction but of itself does not effect interpretation. The'wobble' is due to the gravitational interaction of Moon and Earth coupled with the Moon's eliptical orbit.

From an Astrological point of view there's no clear answer as to which is best, despite strong support for each. As the difference is never more than a degree and a half, the obvious question is 'does it matter?'
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Now in the case of this question it actually might. If we take the True Node, your 'return' is on February 7th, 2013 whereas your Mean Node Return is 17 January 2013. Given there's no clear distinction in meaning, which should we use? Dave can make a cogent case for using a precession corrected solar return, as opposed to a Tropical Soar Return but there's no similar argument for True versus Mean Nodal Return. There's virtually 3 weeks difference between the two dates, a far greater difference than that between Tropical and Precessed Solar Returns.

In my previous post I took the Nodal Return as simply a marker of a time in our life but the obvious question is whether that time has particular meaning and if so, how that meaning really differs from the first Saturn Return and Third Jupiter Return. To be honest I can find no significant evidence about nodal returns. Even worse none of my software allows a calculation (possibly because of the True v Mean argument).

There is also quite some debate as to whether this "Return' has any meaning, ranging from 'None at all' to Karmic importance. Perhaps the best approach in my opinion is an analysis of the Metonic Cycle, That was used by the Hellenistic Astrologers and echoed nearly 2000 years later by Dane Rudhyar.

That's something we can take up if you would like. I'll give a 'Traditional' viewpoint but I'd be grateful if someone else can inject a modern perspective.

First however I'll look at that eclipse :)
 

dadsnook2000

Those Nodes of the Moon . . .

Almost every astrologer includes or accepts the inclusion of the Moon's nodal axis being shown in their charts. It is my belief that most astrologers utilize a simple pre-packaged set of statements concerning the North Node or the South Node . . . and then leave their thoughts on the Nodes at that point, mentally moving on to other subjects.

There is little of an "authoritative" work that addresses the Nodes. The Astrologer's Node Book by Donna Van Toen is one book that represent's the author's own search to find the meanings that can be applied to the nodal axis. She offers little on retrograde or direct motion of the true node and how that might be interpreted. Most books on eclipses do not go deeply into the Node's meanings, only their role in determining when and where an eclipse will occur. Interpreting the Eclipses by Robert Carl Jansky and The Moon In Your Life by Donna Cunningham are two books that explore eclipses but offer little on how we might understand the role of the Nodes in our charts, if there is any role.

The Moon's orbital behaviour appears irregular to some degree within its obvious overall regular cycle. There are other cycles that have been observed for centuries, even thousands of years . . . these being the Saros Cycles and Metonic Cycles which relate to patterns observed to re-occur over periods of several or many years. In this post, I will seek to keep my remarks linked to interpretive meanings.

Many Astrologers view the North Node as being positive in nature, showing what one needs to accomplish in this life, a statement of one's goals. The South Node is often seen as representing prior-acquired skills that are easy to call upon but which do not advance one's personal growth. I view this as being somewhat the "mainstream view" of the Nodes.

Ebertin, author of The Combination of Stellar Influences, links the Nodes to one's associates or the involvement of one's associates in your current affairs. This view is one that is based on many decades of research and probably a hundred thousand charts. One might want to consider this.

As for the Mean Node or True Node position in one's chart I can advance this possibility for those that are all twitterpated by the concept of Karma. The True Node-Direct Motion might suggest that this life requires you to make a profound choice that can set your soul's reincarnated selves on a future path to work out and resolve that Karma for one's personal growth. The True Node-Retrog. Motion is far more common in natal charts and is seen as pointing to how past life actions need to be addressed in this life. Is "Karma" a real concern? For those who wish to answer this question, there are about a zillion books on this subject written over the centuries. A more modern and deeper view of just what Karma is can be found in the seven volume series "Karmic Relationships" taken from the lectures of the profound Rudolph Steiner, the late German philosopher and psychic.

Eclipses can occur when the True Node is in Direct Motion or in Retrograde Motion.

One view of the Moon's Nodes that is seldom addressed is that of the "Draconic Zodiac." The Aries point of the Draconic Zodiac is found to coincide with the North Node, as this represents the start of the Moon's declination cycle relative to the Earth-Sun orbital plane. It is interesting to count the degrees from one's natal North Node to the natal Sun's position and turn that resulting number of degrees into a Sign-Degree meaning such as used in the Tropical Zodiac. This can often provide deep insights to consider.

Dave
 

Ronia

That's something we can take up if you would like. I'll give a 'Traditional' viewpoint but I'd be grateful if someone else can inject a modern perspective.

First however I'll look at that eclipse :)

Thanks, Minderwiz, I'll be grateful if you give me your traditional viewpoint. :) Also, even if we take the 22 degree the eclipse will still conjunct the Node, regardless Mean or True, right?

What I can recall from 1993 when I had the same situation: I started my first job to be able to pay my bills, support myself and prepare myself for the university, which I did - I got enrolled in the spring of 1994, meanwhile working. I can't recall any other events but there may have been so. I'm not sure if this was the time when I finally realized I had to go on my own from there - Saturn was in the 1st I think. Jupiter was in Scorpio at the same time and I guess helped with the university. Overall, I took responsibility for myself and my choices at this moment influenced the following years - studying. Of course, I as much younger then, now many more things could happen as I'm a grown up, a mother, and have more control over my own life.
 

Ronia

Dave, I also found little on eclipses related to North Node which is why I posted the thread. Usually there is info on eclipse on a personal planet, nodes are not very much in the spotlight, as it seems. I wouldn't pay much attention to this one either if it wasn't a year that started and seems to end with rare astrological events for me, events that don't happen every year or not even every ten years. There must be a meaning which I'm missing and it's bothering me. LOL
 

Minderwiz

You and the Eclipse

My first observation here is that the eclipse is only visible across Australia, Antartica, and parts of Chile, and the totality, only in Northern Australia and the Southern Pacific Ocean. Elsewhere in the affected region there will only be a partial eclipse and of course the rest of the world (including Sofia) will not see anything. Indeed it will be 00:12 in Sofia when the eclipse occurs.

The reason that eclipses are seen as highly significant in Astrology is that they 'dim the light' of either Sun or Moon (Sun in this case) and light is traditionally the driving force of Astrology. So as the light is not 'dimmed' in Sofia, there is arguably no reason to treat it other than as a 'standard' New Moon. Yes it is near your natal nodes, but as I pointed out previously it will take at least another 54 days till the nodes again reach your natal position. That's a significant time gap.

The eclipse is applying to a trine with your natal Moon, though there is a separation of nearly 5 and a half degrees from perfection. This means the contact will be a few hours later between transiting Moon and Natal Moon and five and a half days till the transiting Sun perfects the trine.

The question is then, to what extent a Solar (and indeed luar) transit of your natal nodes has any effect. Looking at Rob Hand's Planets in Transit, he does not delineate transits of the nodes by any planet. He does delineate transits of the Ascendant and MC but not other point.

Lilly however does also allow for Transits of the Nodes, as well as the Lot of Fortune and the house cusps. He takes 'good' days as ones where Venus, Jupiter, Sun or Moon transit the Ascendant, the MC, or their own places in the Radix or aspect them by sextile or Trine. He takes as bad days ones where either Saturn or Mars transits Ascendant, MC, the radical places of Sun, Moon, Venus or Jupiter, or the South Node or aspect them by square or opposition. He does not mention herea positive Transit of the Nodes. This could be an omission but is more likely to mean that he did not see one, as a transit of one node must necessarily aspect the other by opposition. A trine or Sextile to one Node will mean a sextile or trine to the other node. As the North Node is of the nature of Venus and Jupiter, but the South Node is of the nature of Saturn and Mars, an aspect to the North Node, even by trine, must involve an aspect to the South Node, and thus cannot be wholly 'good'. On the other hand an opposition or square by Saturn or Mars, is bad for both Nodes.

So in summary,

The eclipse is not really 'in force' in Bulgaria as it is not visible

The new Moon is indeed very close to your natal Nodes and will involve a transit of them

That transit will be in the neutral towards good in terms of effects, but cannot be seen as wholly good. You will get a reasonable day but not a particularly memorable one for being good.

The likely focus of your day will be on romance and partnership issues because Sun and Moon both have direct links to your Seventh House. The Moon as it's ruler and the Sun through Intercepted Leo. But as intimated above, that doesn't make it a good day for romance or prospective long term partners. LOL

Longer term effects might be identified by looking at other predictive methods such as profections or Primary Directions or indeed Time Lord systems. And I will look at that later, if you want, because it's not something that you directly asked about.
 

Ronia

Minderwiz, you always have this sobbering effect on me. LOL Thank you!

I should have mentioned I didn't think about the North Node return as part of this eclipse week/month, just mentioned it as one of the more important events that are to happen soon enough in my chart.

Now, on the visibility, I haven't really noticed it to have an impact on the eclipses' effect on me... I look back now and I think I've felt all the eclipses lately quite strongly, I didn't even check if they were visible from here or not... Of course, it's possible it will matter, I just didn't know it could matter thus I never paid any attention to it which, probably, is why they worked for me despite their visibility or lack of such. LOL

The reason why I wanted to learn more about this particular eclipse is namely what you've already mentioned: the Moon, Sun (and Mercury) as co-rulers of my 7th. As I said, this year (calendar year) I started with solar New Moon, I had my progressed New Moon (in one year both of them) which also included the progressed Mercury thus all 7th house rulers were in the game, and finally this eclipse in Scorpio now which I consider to be on the North Node. I think all these should point in a direction of a kind and I'm trying to find out what is hidden there. There has been no change in my personal status.

I keep looking at both my progressions and directions, there are a number of sensitive points now, progressed Moon is to trine Jupiter and square Venus , neptune has been heavily involved lately, Asc aspects, with directions Uranus, Saturn and Mars are all going to hit Neptune , Venus is aspected by Neptune and Pluto, and there is more, and the Solar Return continues the theme Venus/Moon/Mercury too. If, and when, you have the time, I'll certainly appreciate your help on this as I'm far from understanding the dynamics very well.
 

Minderwiz

Minderwiz, you always have this sobbering effect on me. LOL Thank you!

Dave often points out that dramatic events are rarities in most lives. So we need to be careful not to predict major changes or events in people's lives, just because there's an eclipse of a Pluto transit, unless the chart screams change at us! There's not really any major indication of a significant event in your life in the Eclipse chart.

Ronia said:
Now, on the visibility, I haven't really noticed it to have an impact on the eclipses' effect on me... I look back now and I think I've felt all the eclipses lately quite strongly, I didn't even check if they were visible from here or not... Of course, it's possible it will matter, I just didn't know it could matter thus I never paid any attention to it which, probably, is why they worked for me despite their visibility or lack of such. LOL

Why is an eclipse different from an 'ordinary lunation'? It's the same mechanisms entirely, all that is different is that the Moon is on or very near the ecliptic - indeed the ecliptic gets it's name from 'eclipse' What is noticeably different is that the Sun or Moon is 'eclipsed' it's light is cut off. Something significantly abnormal happens - especially with a Total Solar Eclipse, the day turns to night, or at least significantly darkens. That is why eclipses are seen as 'special'.

In pre twentieth century times, an eclipse seen in Australia would not attract any news or attention in Europe and certainly would not have seemed portentous in any way. Now we are told about it in advance by global media and get to see video footage on the News or on You Tube. So it's possible that there's an effect through 'knowing' it's happening. It's rather like Mercury Retrograde, People expect something to happen and so it may become a self fulfilling prediction - a sort of Astrological Placebo Effect. Please don't take that the wrong way - placebos can have a very positive effect in medicine but the effect is not because of the medication (as there isn't any) but because of psychological factors.

Eclipses are also used significantly in Mundane Astrology (Nations, Cities, Peoples) so an eclipse that effects the nation will have some effect on the individuals who comprise it, but only to a strong degree if it is at a prominent degree of the Natal Chart.

In this case the eclipse will happen at 00:12, Sofia time (and 22:12 GMT on the previous day) No one will see the eclipse - it is eclipsed itself by the Earth. What we do notice, or will notice is the New Moon associated with it and New Moons are important though frequent events. That is to say, there could still be an effect from the lunation itself - I doubt it will be strong though because there's no clear associated major transit.

Ronia said:
The reason why I wanted to learn more about this particular eclipse is namely what you've already mentioned: the Moon, Sun (and Mercury) as co-rulers of my 7th. As I said, this year (calendar year) I started with solar New Moon, I had my progressed New Moon (in one year both of them) which also included the progressed Mercury thus all 7th house rulers were in the game, and finally this eclipse in Scorpio now which I consider to be on the North Node. I think all these should point in a direction of a kind and I'm trying to find out what is hidden there. There has been no change in my personal status.

There may or may not be something 'hidden there' but if the events leads you to think about particular issues in your life then it's a good thing. You certainly do seem to have real issues in your life at the moment with the seventh House. I've not looked at other predictive techniques, as they didn't figure in the question but if there are significant other events all pointing to a rethink of Seventh House issues, then you are getting a strong hint LOL.

Ronia said:
I keep looking at both my progressions and directions, there are a number of sensitive points now, progressed Moon is to trine Jupiter and square Venus , neptune has been heavily involved lately, Asc aspects, with directions Uranus, Saturn and Mars are all going to hit Neptune , Venus is aspected by Neptune and Pluto, and there is more, and the Solar Return continues the theme Venus/Moon/Mercury too. If, and when, you have the time, I'll certainly appreciate your help on this as I'm far from understanding the dynamics very well.

Yes I can look at some other predictive tools and their use in your current circumstances, but as you know I don't use Neptune and Pluto (Astrological Placebos LOL) or at least not in a conventional sense. You certainly have a need for some answers. Perhaps Dave might make a comment or two if he gets the time and if he's recovered from the rebuff to his former State Governor LOL.