Switching from Rider to Thoth.

BleuReynard

Hey guys.

I've done almost all my readings using the Rider Deck. Around Christmas I picked up a few Tarot books at the library one on Rider and one on the Thoth just to see what it's about. When I got home and popped them open I found that both were Thoth books. After some reading I found myself more drawn to the Thoth then my own Rider Decks. Shortly after I picked up the Green Thoth Deck and grabbed a copy of Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot by Lon Milo DuQuette (currently on The Holy Guardian chapter, haven't got to the cards or reads yet).
I have yet to do a read using these new cards. So far I've just laid them out by suit in order of The Tree of Life and the Hermeteric Cross to see their relation to each other.
In truth, I rarely open the box. I don't want to do a reading with them or get them out of order until I know more about them.

I have a few novice questions:
Can they be used in the same fashion as the Rider cards when it comes to spreads?
Has anyone posted Daily Draws using the Thoth? I want to see their findings.
Lastly, is there really any difference between the Thoth and Rider Tarot?

Sorry if this seems awkward, I just want to know more about this stunning deck.
 

Zephyros

First of all, congratulations on picking up the Thoth! It is my own favorite (and indeed, practically my only).

In terms of how the deck is used, it can be used in the same way you use the RWS, including readings, daily draws and all the rest. It is different, yes, but still a Tarot deck. I use it for everything, which in my case is mostly study and daily draws as I don't read as much as I used to. I don't have my own dailies posted, but I am sure that in the Daily Draws section of the forum there has to be at least someone who uses it.

As to the difference between the two, in some ways they are very similar and in other ways very different. I don't know how much you know yet (although having picked up the DuQuette book, you can have no better introduction) so I'll try not to be too technical. The creator of the deck, Aleister Crowley was the founder of, well, I guess you could call it a religion, Thelema, although I see it as more of a school of thought, and the deck reflects that in many cards. You may delve into that or you can choose not to, it is up to you.

Both the RWS and the Thoth come from the same Golden Dawn root, so although they may look different, they share many similarities in structure and build. Both are based on similar Qabalistic Tree of Life attributions, and your knowledge of the RWS will aid you in the Thoth. On the other hand, the "spirit" of the deck is vastly different, as cards such as the Devil illustrate. Waite was a devout Christian, following the precept of "materialism is wrong" so his Devil follows the Marseilles traditions of enslavement. The Thoth Devil, on the other hand, speaks more of freedom and creation. The root is the same but the interpretation is different. Because of this and many other reasons, I prefer the Thoth.

In addition, the Thoth is actually better as a teaching tool than the RWS, as its Qabalistic and astrological attributions are there for anyone to see, rather than being veiled as in the RWS. The Thoth companion book, if it could be called that, The Book of Thoth, is also highly detailed on these matters, as Crowley did not feel himself to be bound by the same oaths of secrecy Waite was. The Book of Thoth can be too detailed for beginning students, so I would recommend going with DuQuette first, but also downloading the BoT as well, as it can be found online for free. The BoT is an excellent book, but is very fluent in its esoteric explanations, so without some sort of preliminary study, it can be very hard to understand.

The deck is highly Qabalistic, and while DuQuette does gives a short introduction on the subject, it is lacking in scope and in information, so you might want to look into other books in the future about this. DuQuette has yet another book on this, the Chicken Qabalah although I found it, too, quite limited. Robert Wang's The Qabalistic Tarot or Dion Fortune's The Mystical Qabalah are better, in my opinion. But again, DuQuette provided me an important introduction, so I do highly recommend his book.

But don't get ahead of yourself, all of that will come in time. For me the Thoth is more a deck of inner contemplation rather than solely used for divination; don't get impatient or study it "just to get it over with." It will reap you the greatest rewards if you take your time with it. Work through DuQuette's Understanding and then see how you wish to continue, no point in flooding yourself with information right now.

Another factor that makes the Thoth special is the art. Contrary to other esoteric decks such as the Hermetic and Golden Dawn, the Thoth is designed to connect viscerally to the reader with colors, shapes and figures, and so personal feeling and connections are important factors in reading with this deck, as well as meditation on it. In this it is similar to the RWS.

And above all, don't be afraid of it! Take it out of the box, shuffle it, play with, look at it, use it in any way you can, immerse yourself in it. There is no need for any intimidation.

ETA: There are no awkward questions if you really want to learn, feel free to ask anything.
 

BleuReynard

Thank you so much. :)

Understanding the Thoth is on loan from the library. I have extended the return date to Jan 16, so I might not be privileged to take my time. It's on sale online. I will consider ordering it.
 

Richard

BleuReynard said:
......Can they be used in the same fashion as the Rider cards when it comes to spreads?
Click to expand...
Yes.
Has anyone posted Daily Draws using the Thoth? I want to see their findings.
Click to expand...
I don't know if any Thoth user has done that.
Lastly, is there really any difference between the Thoth and Rider Tarot?
Click to expand...
Yes. I am currently using the Rider-Waite, but I may change to the BOTA Tarot later this year. Yet I feel comfortable using the Thoth for meditation, because I am somewhat familiar with the Golden Dawn theory of Tarot, the basis from which both the Rider-Waite and the Thoth evolved.

To get the full impact of a Qabalistic deck such as the Thoth, it is necessary to do a little study of the Qabalah and how it relates to Tarot. In the process you may find it helpful to learn the Hebrew alphabet and the glyphs for the signs and ruling planets of the zodiac, as these, in a sense, constitute the basic alphabet of Tarot. As closrapexa said, take it slow and easy. These are not school studies, so there's no deadline. I love studying this stuff so much that it has become as much a part of my life as eating and sleeping. The strange and wonderful thing is that Qabalah is infinitely deep, so it is theoretically impossible to know everything there is to know about it.
 

BleuReynard

Thank you LRitchard.

Yes, I agree. I have been making notes and diagrams to better understand what I'm reading in DuQuette's book. I also ask questions like "Why is Earth not one of the 3 peddles in the inner rose of the Hermetic Cross?" Only to read later that Earth is a combination of the other elements.
I am going to print off the Zodiac and copy the symbols in my notes for reference today. As well, if I can find it, the Hebrew alphabet.

I have to admit when looking at this as a whole it is very overwhelming. It is best to cut it down and take time learning things in smaller sections. I find it hard to find a starting point when everything is part of everything else.

I can say that having a deck near by is a help. I didn't have that with the first two books I had out on loan. I'm glad I got the big Green deck rather then the Purple.
 

akirafist

Once you go Thoth, you won't want to ever go back.
 

Richard

BleuReynard said:
......I can say that having a deck near by is a help. I didn't have that with the first two books I had out on loan. I'm glad I got the big Green deck rather then the Purple.
Click to expand...
The Green is really the way to go! The Purple is too small for the amount of detail in the cards.
 

Zephyros

BleuReynard said:
Thank you LRitchard.

Yes, I agree. I have been making notes and diagrams to better understand what I'm reading in DuQuette's book. I also ask questions like "Why is Earth not one of the 3 peddles in the inner rose of the Hermetic Cross?" Only to read later that Earth is a combination of the other elements.
I am going to print off the Zodiac and copy the symbols in my notes for reference today. As well, if I can find it, the Hebrew alphabet.

I have to admit when looking at this as a whole it is very overwhelming. It is best to cut it down and take time learning things in smaller sections. I find it hard to find a starting point when everything is part of everything else.

I can say that having a deck near by is a help. I didn't have that with the first two books I had out on loan. I'm glad I got the big Green deck rather then the Purple.
Click to expand...

If I may, I would recommend printing out the Tree of Life, either with or instead of the Zodiac, as I actually found it simpler (even if you don't know anything about Qabala). It may look complex at first (and it is) but concentrating on simple things like the Hebrew letters and their meanings gives you great insight into it. Learning all about the Tree is impossible, but learning to read it is actually quite simple.

Once you know what each letter means (air, house, camel, etc.) you can look at a Tree and immediately see all the connections, parallels and like you said, how everything is connected to everything else. It is a highly useful filing cabinet for the entirety of Qabala and as an extension, Tarot, as you can see why things are as they are simply by looking at it.

Here is a link to help you with the letters:

http://www.byzant.com/mystical/kabbalah/Hebrew.aspx

The Zodaical attributions can be very confusing, for me at least, and I would recommend you delay that part.
 
What are the Wands on the Five? Robert Anton Wilson on Aleister Crowley