Whose Hand Is It Anyway?

There has been a good deal of discussion in the Thoth forum about the anatomical impossibility of the right foot of the Hanged Man. Now I see that there is a similar anomaly in the Conver Marseille.

I'm currently reading Yoav Ben-Dov's excellent "Tarot, The Open Reading." In the section on L'amoureux I found this observation about the hand on the belly of the young woman to the right: "The illustration presents conflicting indications as to the question of whose hand it is - his or hers. Perhaps we can understand it as the common hand of both."

Careful scrutiny shows that the arm seems to spring from the shoulder of the young woman. But the hand on the end of that arm - in order to be hers, with the thumb where it is - would have to be palm up, which it most certainly is not. So the arm looks like hers and the hand like his, supporting the idea that they intend to "make something together."

Barleywine said:

......So the arm looks like hers and the hand like his, supporting the idea that they intend to "make something together."

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Maybe so, but thankfully my brain doesn't process images that meticulously. Anyhow, the details of the Conver tarot do not inspire me with confidence in the artist's attention to anatomical details. Look at the left leg of the naked woman in Trump XVII. Things like that would drive me nuts if I paid much attention to them. The artist was nowhere near the caliber of a Leonardo or a Michaelangelo. I prefer to read tarot, not anatomical irregularities. If I thought the cards were picture puzzles, I would have a good cry and then sell my collection.

My way

Hello all,

To look cards may be done in various ways:
Details by details
Globally
By giving priority to colours dimensions
By receiving intuitive signals from them
By using their suggestion signals and taking impressions from consultant in front of you (or aside you why not).
other options.... game is open.

Personnaly I use all this methods together with a priority on one of them depending ambiance of this precise day and my own daily mood.

Of course main thing is to use a deck that you like and not the one that your consultant will decide.
It's not a question of Power but a question of pleasure.

Happy day,

Yves LM

LRichard said:

Maybe so, but thankfully my brain doesn't process images that meticulously. Anyhow, the details of the Conver tarot do not inspire me with confidence in the artist's attention to anatomical details. Look at the left leg of the naked woman in Trump XVII. Things like that would drive me nuts if I paid much attention to them. The artist was nowhere near the caliber of a Leonardo or a Michaelangelo. I prefer to read tarot, not anatomical irregularities. If I thought the cards were picture puzzles, I would have a good cry and then sell my collection.

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I've done some wood-block printing myself. It ain't easy . . . Anyway, I never would have noticed this if it hadn't been pointed out to me by the book I was reading. It struck me as similar to the situation with the foot of the Thoth Hanged Man, which I never noticed either over 40 years of using it until it was pointed out on this forum. Looking at the minute details is usually something I do only when I'm re-reading the Book of Thoth and trying to get inside Crowley's head.

LRichard said:

The artist was nowhere near the caliber of a Leonardo or a Michaelangelo.

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nevertheless, some tarot artists were of a good "caliber", not the best of his generation certainly, but also a really decent engraver made the Vieville, look at this kind of portrait on V:
http://www.bertrandtarot.com/data/uploads/misc/vievillepapedetail.jpg

I prefer to read tarot, not anatomical irregularities.

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considering the accuracy of certain details, and notwithstanding the overinterpretations of details that occurs way too often when we're speaking tarot cards (thinking here of the obession around the divine proportions and that kind of mumbo jumbo, when these were the basics of image composition), it would be a bit harsh to ignore details like this one (still on Vieville, VI this time)
http://www.bertrandtarot.com/data/uploads/misc/vievilleamoureuxdetail.jpg
which are obviously made on purpose : naked (hand like) foot - does that rings a bell to RWS specialists ? the other foot wearing a shoe or hoof... I've been doing a bit of block printing myself, if you ask me the engraver did that on purpose, no doubt, same is true for the number I two left hands (still speaking of the Vieville because it is undoubtedly an at least competent engraver who made the woodblocks)

Bertrand

LRichard said:

Maybe so, but thankfully my brain doesn't process images that meticulously. Anyhow, the details of the Conver tarot do not inspire me with confidence in the artist's attention to anatomical details. Look at the left leg of the naked woman in Trump XVII. Things like that would drive me nuts if I paid much attention to them. The artist was nowhere near the caliber of a Leonardo or a Michaelangelo. I prefer to read tarot, not anatomical irregularities. If I thought the cards were picture puzzles, I would have a good cry and then sell my collection.

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I feel where you're coming from, but there are so many ways to read a Tarot card, I don't have a problem having this "anatomical analysis" as just one of them.

I have noticed a similar effect on the Empress card in the Marseilles. The hand on the left side of the card is apparently the Empress's, but the angle makes it look like it could be somebody else's hand, perhaps from the card next to it, or as I sometimes interpret it, a Divine hand.