The Tarot symbols origin

Rosanne

If a sequence of symbolic images in ancient times is similar (at least for two thirds) with Arcana Tarot, is it a evidence from your point of view what the knowledge of spiritual path (consisting of 22 steps) were known before 14 century?
I crossed posts in time with you Moonstranger.
There is a commonality of Human stories and their myths.
The legend of Gilgamesh is seen in the Bible for instance, as is the words from the Book of the Dead in the Sermon on the Mount. Also the non Christian image kenji posted of Grace, is similar to Christian depictions of Mary the Virgin.
I am not sure that a path of 22 steps is the basis for Tarot as I believe that originally there were less cards in the group.
Sequences have always been a part of Christian belief.
Most commonly known are the 22 chapters of Revelations, or Stations of the Cross, or the sequence of the Rosary, which could be made into astrological sequence like the 52 cards of a playing deck. Humans see symbols everywhere in everything. Associations abound.
I heard a person say once that the WOF was ideal at 10, because we turn with our hands and run with our feet.(10 fingers and 10 toes) Who does not love number associations?
All these associations have become a myriad of decks deviating away from the original concept but still Tarot.
~Rosanne
 

ravenest

Thanks for all useful remarks.

Let me ask a question: is one researching Tarot because of beautiful pictures or with attempt to understand it/get knowledge about something…?

Why do people keep posting 'loaded questions' ??? Alright then..

YES!

(That is there is; no OR for me, I do it for both reasons)

I’m talking about the knowledge behind Tarot mainly and not about the methods of its obtaining. Although one of them is the method of historical research. And I think if the method is not serving of the purpose of getting the knowledge, we may extend it a bit...

But if, after all, someone likes to get understanding about the subject, that one have to understand, that the Knowledge itself is not linked neither to a specific territory no time period. We as humans only discover the Knowledge from different angels through the history. For instance, Newton’s law on universal gravitation was acting before he discovered it and is continuing to act after. The same applies for spiritual knowledge which is also not linked neither to the specific territory no time, that means that this Knowledge exists, and every one can open it for himself.

In this thread I try to show the link that this knowledge existed before the “present” form of Tarot was created. This knowledge did not “came from Mars” and was known at different continents in various forms. And Tarot in present form also reflects this spiritual knowledge. With attempt to show what is similar I apply to the authoritative sources. Everyone can do it as well…

The sequence of the first 3 Arcana I tried to show already.
4th Arcana is the Hierophant according to Maitreya (he calles it the Field). The symbol of the field is the base of a pyramid – a 4-side square. Field is an internal world of the soul. The internal field is the place of dreams. There are 2 falling persons in the Tower arcana: King and Worker . King and Worker - it’s a dual mind. When a person falls asleep he dreams himself either as Worker or King. He dreams himself as Worker when his mind is fixed to the external life of events (while being awake his mind is linked to the external life). As King he dreams when his mind is concentrated on the spiritual world. The plough is the tool of the Worker, he is known as “grandeval peasant» who teach people to cultivate land and grow fruits. King-warrior uses sacrificing altar as refusal from his deals and results of his activity. He is chained (chain has the link at the following arcana with lady-anima). The first (Worker) is the host of the field, the warrior tends to obtain the knowledge about himself, refusing the benefits of the field. In Egyptian Book of the Dead it was written Ap-Uat –the opener of the ways of the South, he stays on the plough (Dendera Zodiac). The Employee - Worker was known in Sumerian astrology as Aries constellation. In Egyptian book of the dead the Aries Constellation is the Prince of the Field.

(Well, I followed that logic a lot better than other stuff today. I too appreciate your analogy links ... protests are about the techniques of historical research here... we done enough of that ... we haven't been modded or moved so let US 'move on'.)

On this level above I agree with you.

If a sequence of symbolic images in ancient times is similar (at least for two thirds) with Arcana Tarot, is it a evidence from your point of view what the knowledge of spiritual path (consisting of 22 steps) were known before 14 century?

That is not as clear... because of the arrangement of the question; I do think there is evidence from my point of view what the knowledge of a spiritual path (consisting of 22 steps) were known before 14 century but not evidence from my point of view that Tarot cards as a deck existed as a spiritual path (consisting of 22 steps) and were known before 14 century?

Even after that date knowledge of a spiritual path (consisting of 22 steps) existed that I would not see as tarot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splendor_Solis
 

kenji

Again, Cesare Ripa's 'Benignità' and TEMPERANCE

Hi. Here's something from what I am working on at Twitter (in Japanese).


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The illustrated version of Ripa's ''Iconologia' and Jean Noblet's tarot deck are both from 17th century.

Considering that THE MOON card in the Cary sheet, which most probably precedes them in time, has no dogs and droplets in the sky yet, isn't this interesting?:)

The WOMAN in a dress with STARS on it is SHEDDING MILK from her BREASTS---

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Frankly I am not sure yet what all these could mean in a historical point of view, but I AM intrigued with the similarities.

I think I have found a few more examples, which I am still being examining:)


BTW I am considering again about the possibility that the theological virtue 'charity' (found in Cary-Yale Visconti, Tarocchi di Mantegna, Minchiate, etc.) merged into the trump ''STAR' --which I came upon long before: http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=512614&postcount=46
 

Rosanne

My point remains...that the symbols of Tarot was influenced by earlier playing card images.
~Rosanne

Here are images from a German playing card deck c.1430
Grass, Cliffs, Gold background, hats clothe etc and a Page that looks like it would step right in to a Visconti deck.
http://www.wopc.co.uk/germany/stuttgart.html

There are other Playing cards on the World of Playing Cards site that you will see a similar attention to images even though the suits may have been vastly different.
~Rosanne
 

kenji

Two more examples (with Madenié & J-P Payen)


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"MEDITATIONE" reminds me of the title "LA PANCES" (=LA PENSEE?) of Jean Dodal deck...

Jean_Dodal_Tarot_trump_02.jpg



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momentarylight

What a fascinating thread.

There is enough here to keep a person going for a life time. I will come back to this thread.

Even though I can sense the frustration in the discussion, the responses to the difficulties have yielded a lot of very interesting material for those who are interested in both the origins of tarot but also in symbology generally.
 

Moonstranger

This is a follow-up explanation of the 4th step of "development of consciousness - knowledge of the own spiritual essence" (Maitreya). Which is the 4th Major Arcana.

From Amduat book of the Dead: The fourth hour of the night. Seker kingdom. The Sun went into the depth of the earth during his journey through the underworld with no light there. The one who knows the true pass there, will avoid unapproachable ways and see Isis image.


The true way in Arcana is the chained Knight. Therefore, in the 5th Major the Knight is chained with the lady, as two halves of a soul - anima / animus . They meet in the middle of the field where the altar is. Man and woman are the bride and groom who are willing to ally at the altar like at a marital bed. Within a man, the bride and groom are the lunar (female) and solar (male) channels. Groom is reincarnating Ego, ready for the initiation to connect with the higher Self. Anima, as the unconscious part of a man, initiates him to the secret knowledge and confers by magical powers. Women have an animus as unconscious part.

The 5th Major (the Devil).

From Amduat book. Fifth hour of the night. During this hour the greatest mystery of Tuat is starting, which is essential for resurrection of the night Sun.

From Christianity. Marriage of the Lamb with the bride.

From Sumerians. Inanna chooses Dumuzi shepherd instead of farmer Enkidu.

From Indian mythology. It’s an incest of Yama - Yami brother and sister, which led to settlement the worlds by people.

Astrology . Gemini constellation seeks to raise the consciousness of man to the divine level of holistic consciousness. In the nature the opposite charges aim to each other while homogeneous ones channel off . Therefore in ancient Dendera Zodiacs for instance the man and woman were drawn and not two men.

I have seen a picture of the 5th Arcana and it’s a pity that Maitreya has forbidden publishing its image before the official publication date. As for me it is the one of the most beautiful drawings from Maitreya oracle.
 

Moonstranger

Hi there,

Further to the previous discussions would like to inform that Way of Maitreya oracle has been recently published in Ukraine. The images of the cards are available at Aeclectic (http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/way-of-maitreya/).

1-Moon
2-Hanged Man
4-Hierophant
5-Devil
7-Wheel of fortune

This oracle appeared as a result of the author's deep meditation inside himself (into that part of the soul, which does not reincarnate), and there he reached the spiritual world. There he saw not just a dreaming, but what both the Spirit and all the initiated by Him saw. Almost all knowledge of the ancient, pre-Christian religions, including the knowledge of the Five Yoga Pranas, are intertwined in the explanations of the author. The shown sequence of the Major Arcana almost completely matches with the sequence described in Egypt and Tibetan Books of the Dead. The oracle shows and explains the structure of human soul. According to Maitreya, this is the how the true ancient Tarot look like. The author also states that Rider Waite, for instance, was not initiated , therefore could not know which astrological signs should correspond to Arcana Tarot.

By the way, the following prophecy of wolkhves (magi) is quite knows in Ukraine: after 1000 years of Christianity adoption (year 988 a.c.) the true ancient Knowledge will came back to Ukraine…
 

Moonstranger

Magician

Hi there,

Further to the previously published info, posting here the explanation of the next step (Magician) with analogies to the sources:

Step 6 - Mokosh (Magician). Cleansing. Fire of Knowledge burns all the actions on the level of illusion and destroys everything that exists at the field. The Ukrainian language has many words which cognate with Sanskrit words, because of common ancestors. Therefore many of gods in Ukrainain and Hindu mythology also coincide. Mokosh (slav.) is the goddess of liberation, and in Hinduism moksha word means liberation (from the cycle of birth and death). Big sacrifice is the balance were "death" and "resurrection" are happening. It’s a death of Magician of Illusion and resurrection of a spiritual Mind. This is a complicated card, as exactly at this stage the victory over the dark realm of the individual in his soul happens through the rejection of the world of desires. After uniting with the opposite half of the soul, a human gets (partakes) Secret Doctrine and becomes united with the Dragon of Wisdom. Therefore Magician holds a fiery stick above his head, as the beginning of Kundalini rise. Prince (Knight) has connected with his opposite (Naga), as consciousness and the unconsciousness, in order to rise above the influence of dual perception of the field. Naga sweeps away by her tail, like a broom, all the forms from the field. That means liberation from the cover of ignorance and release of the underground wealth the Light of Mind. Light is an attribute of the all saved. To get the fire, a human need to destroy the personality - lunar body. Lunar body is the magician of illusion that used the field as a table for his imaginary speculation. Therefore the oldest - a peasant, who was guarding the land, has died. A death of lunar body is a necessary condition for the manifestation of the individual Ego.

Spirituality. Fohat (Tibetan) is born every time when two different beginnings by nature, male and female, are connected. He binds them together and separates identical ones.

Yoga. Samana - "a middle breath" which goes from around to a center of the field, therefore it is relevant to the sushumna. The color of Samana is green.

Brih. Upanishad. Saman Itself is a "she" and "he" at one (1.3.22). This is a dispute of the gods and asuras. Only by life-breath the gods win the asuras. And just like a clod crumbles from hitting to (Altar) stone, they have scattered into different directions and died. (1.3.7).

Buddhism. Getting into the flow of release.

Amduat Book. The sixth hour of a night. "Staying of Greatness of the Great God in water depths of the Empress of those who is in Dat". Name of the gates of this kingdom is "With - Sharp - Knives." At the sixth hour of the night the soul of the Great God reaches the place where to the deep of Dat a dead body shell of God is resting, surrounded by the great serpent. This is a connection of body and spirit which occurs in the middle of the night. The victory over the forces of death occurs every night.

Rune Kenaz – a torch. A symbol of knowledge. Inspiration, insight. Uniting of male and female principles leads to a creative change. It’s a sexual desire and procreation. The king. The force of life is born from contacting of ice with fire. A sacrament of transfiguration, transformation. Mystical rebirth through the death from the own fire. The light allows a person to see. The ritual of an obsolete shell burning to reveal to the world a hitherto hidden clean and updated essence. It’s a illumination of a self-discovery path. Kenaz symbolizes the inner light and occult knowledge. Freya taught Odin a sexual magic.

Maya. Kimi – a death. This is a symbol of transformation or inner death. Marriage. The moon-god with a shell on his back - an old man with firewood behind. He is a source of knowledge of all the riches of nature, but not the knowledge of spirit. Shell is a symbol of the eternal cycle of a birth and death. Soul flew by the last breath. The loss of innocence. Growth and a burst of energy. The first Father crossed a huge void along the White-bone Snake river on canoe, to the place of his rebirth.

Tibetan Book of the Dead. Day 6. All 4 pure flames will light in front of you: white, yellow, red and green - water, earth, fire and air. The lords of four limits and Vairochana - White lord of the center ... They all will rush to you in an incredible splendor of lights that burn for you ... Happiness is a love-making. Connect with the goddess and will attain immortality. Connect with yourself and will enter everything, there will not be secrets for you ... Last day for the heart chakram circle.

Upanishads. Two birds – friends who are joined together, cling to the same tree - one of them eats the sweet berries, other one looks on it without eating.

Astrology. Scorpio symbolizes death, but a death of a lunar body, the death of the world of desires. Together with a personality the whole lower world is destroyed - a flourishing field that becomes a valley of death. Scorpio is a pit. Mars, a house ruler, cuts off all the desires associated with wealth and possession of the field, when cames to the center of the field. Scorpio is a manifestation of magnetism (snake) between a man and a woman. A death of lower (personal) consciousness opens a direct way up for Kundalini. Scorpio - Pluto's house, which activates the inner personality within a human. Pluto bestows spiritual and material wealth to the human who gained a holistic consciousness. Uranus is exalted in Scorpio sign. Moon fall (a death of the lunar body) is in Scorpio. Scorpio wins an animal beginning within himself. Scorpio tends to perceive the truth entirely, even if the whole world has to be offered. This is a destruction of obsolete old ideas and recreating true ones.