Astrological Reading Methods for Pips

Mels post #368: I think the last century's 'retread' of house meanings, mothers in the 4th, sex in the 8th, and so on, is based on some 20th century astrologers mistakenly correlating the 12 mundane houses with the 12 celestial houses (the signs). In actuality however, the houses, the signs, and the seven planets are considered (at least up until the 1970's) to be three separate sets of variables,

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Ooops - before the 70's Mel.
Charles E.O. Carter, 1924. Margaret Hones' (D.F.S Astrol.) book first appeared in 1951. R.C. Davidson (The Astrological Lodge.Theo Soc.), 1955. And lots of others.

However, they would still be in the 20th century. Bump

However, as much as I prefer to adhere to the older astro where possible, we have moved on and the planets now-a-days include Uranus and Pluto (not to mention poor little Chiron who has been 'officially' demoted). If the old atrologers had located these planets they would have incorporated them and probably assigned them to the Houses!

That said.... as I mentioned before, different approaches can give the same/similar results.

Bee

EDIT: Re. Frelkins 2nd Chart: Bees' attempt:

!st House: Knight Swords = he is worried.
6th House: Ace Swords = General health not good.
11th House - Knight Batons = group activities/concerns.
This is also the 6th from the Querents 6th - more specific condition of the health (?). If so:

This could be pinned down to his contact with a specific person (courts) with whom he is engaged in some group effort with. (Batons = effort/labour in 11th).

Aside from the 'passings' etc, (which we should really adhere to I suppose...). The 3rd House (lower mind) also has 6 Batons. Could mean that he's having problems with a way to mentally handle this person/issue - cannot achieve a satisfactory viewpoint from which to act (swords & batons = action (?))

O.K. Ready for the tomatoes.... (gonna make a rissotto, a tomatoey one)

Bee

Sorry. I was being a tad facetious. I would have expected the 'newer' house meaning would have been traceable to Alan Leo. He did sort of make the blueprint for what modern astrology became. (And he sported a fabulous turn of the century goatee.) Thanks for those sources Bee. I do like knowing where ideas spawn from.

M

Bernice said:

11th House - Knight Batons = group activities/concerns.
This is also the 6th from the Querents 6th - more specific condition of the health (?).
Bee

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6th from the 6th. The illness' illness! I've never thought of that before! Interesting!! Thinking about it makes me go into the 'Zen zone'!


M

I've been a member of the Astrological Association since just before the 70s (Giving my age away!). But, I hasten to add = a non-active one. Saw Deb Hardings article at the link you gave: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/ Nice one!

Also read Alan leo & Evangeline Adams.... moons ago

Bee

EDITED to add: But always open to new or other approaches. Am liking this approach more & more - just gotta a get a handle on it....

Bernice said:

I've been a member of the Astrological Association since just before the 70s (Giving my age away!). But, I hasten to add = a non-active one. Saw Deb Hardings article at the link you gave: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/ Nice one!

Also read Alan leo & Evangeline Adams.... moons ago

Bee

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Didn't Leo found that association?

(I see now why you know your way around a astro chart! )


M

Don't know who founded it... must have something (in an old journal)somewhere. But it was founded here in the UK:
At 7.22 pm GMT on 21st June 1958 in London, the Astrological Association of Great Britain was born.

Bee



Had a thought: In Frelkins (2nd) chart, the Querent would be 'under the weather' anyway - because of his mums' condition.... and there in the 4th is the Page Batons (personal, plus 'not so good'). Can we hop around like this in the chart?

Hi y'all! Lemme just repost the pic here so that people reading this don't have to flip back a page or 2:



Ok we are agreed that he's not well, since of course in Mel's system the Ace Sword is THE WORST CARD EV_UH. As Mel noted, Justice has a sword, but I feel like it is negatively influenced by the Ace and the Knight, so I think it indicates a lack of balance in this context, the 2nd house of "influences." Could that be so, Mel?

Also, I think it's important that Fortitude faces AWAY from the querent. She is avoiding his gaze, she isn't helping him. She is in the 7th, the doctor-patient relationship house, so I feel like he has a bad doctor.

When it comes to the 6th of the 6th, that brilliant "illness of the illness," I think the Kn. Baton (in Mel's system, not such a great card) indicates chaotic movement in the drives or passions. His moods are clearly unstable.

The Kn is fixated on his baton, not looking where he is going at all. His Baton is a little over-sized, exaggerated. Even the horse isn't looking at the path! Its one hoof is about to trample a flower; it doesn't see "the good." Clearly the querent is in the grip of this chaos and can't see forward in a constructive way.

Notice that unlike the valet's baton, the Kn's is fresh-cut, still green & "bleeding." Whatever bothering him is recent.

As for your questions about money, I believe he has just decided to go freelance, and has recently left his job of 8 years. This may be a secondary meaning to the Knight Sw, with his "Free Sword" (free-lance?) charging up at the Ace Coin, the potential for money?

There are lots of nicer coins here, by their Pythagorean numbers, which I guess means that he could be successful free lance if he can stop this current emotional see-saw.

However I notice he has no cups at all in this reading, anywhere. Does he feel unloved?

No Cups! We should have noticed that!
Whatever his 'material' difficulties are (or are not (?)), as Frelkins has spotted, there's not a Cup in sight.

Mel, your diagram here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=1540775&postcount=337

Can we assess anything overall from the suit groupings around the Querent (1st House), or the 'illness' (6th House) ? Especially as there are no Cups at all.

Bee

Bee: no Cups! I inquired of the querent at lunch: he has been divorced three times, has 2 children with whom he has a difficult relationship, and who was dumped by his long-term girlfriend last December.

In short, the only person who now loves him is his momma, and we've seen she's not long for this world. . . when she even remembers who he is.

Somber story. Mel's method is almost TOO revealing, don't you think? Must learn more, very effective. I feel like we're stripping this poor guy's situation to the bones of truth. This method with the TdM minors is just shockingly deep and heartfelt. Never seen a reading quite like this - not at all fluffy-bunny. Sigh.

frelkins; you were right, you said he was unloved. Now you got proof.
I wonder why he's so unlucky in close relationships? Even not compatible with his kids....!
Unless an ex-wife has poisoned them against him, it does happen.

Hmmmm... that 2nd chart of yours, the question was 'why is he so depressed & can anything be done to alleviate it'. Which means that those cards can also be read to relate to 'close relationships' What do reckon? (Mustn't pry where we're not invited.... but the question begs an answer)

Ready when you are

Bee

Little pic:



P.S. We've got a Translation. With Coins: Can Trumps be 'translated'? The 1st and 7th both adjoin a Trump card as well as Coin cards.

Translation

Translation shows a modest connection between the significators. Translation is when the same figure, a figure other than either of the significators, appears in houses next to those of the querent and the quesited.

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In Mels example chart; the Seven of Batons sits next to the querent, in the twelfth, and the Ace of Baton sits next to the quesited in the 7th.

If Coins = Comforts etc. Then it seems he's 'uncomfortable', or that nothing 'comforts' him.... ??