History of the High Priestess

Autumn

Hello Everyone

Any thoughts on the High Priestess evolving from the myth that the Roman Catholic church having a female pope name Joan in the 8th century. I am trying to research this subject and would appreciate any information that you can share.

Thanks,
Autumn
 

HudsonGray

Ahh, Pope Joan. From what I've read it never really happened but it makes a good story & it sticks around because of that.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Pope+Joan

There's a lot online. I think a search on this site for 'pope joan' will turn up two threads from the past year.
 

Autumn

Pope Joan

Thank you for the link. I do agree it does make a very interesting story and a nice connection to the card.
 

Diana

Autumn: I really don't think that this rather amusing legend has anything to do with the Papess of the Tarot.

The Papess represents either the Virgin Mary - Jesus' mother; or Mary Magdelene who is thought to have been Jesus' wife and to whom Jesus confided the building of his Church; or it could have something to do with the Goddess Isis. It could also be a combination of these or even something else.

Personally, I lean towards Mary Magdalene, because as the real founder of the Church (and not Peter as the Roman Catholic Church likes to make us believe) - that is why she would be called a Papess - as leader of the first Church - and also that is why she is holding the Book. (The Virgin Mary doesn't hold a book normally, she holds a baby Jesus on her lap).

Isis is somewhere in the background as well, I think.

But I think you can forget about Pope Joan when it comes to the Tarot. :)

Good luck with your research.
 

wandking

Sermones De Ludo Cum Aliis, called the Steele Sermon, designates the card number 4 and calls it La papessa (The Popess.) The sermon dates to late fifteenth century and condemns Tarot for its Christian iconography.

Here's another path to consider:

The Rosenwald Sheet, dated around 1500 CE ascribes numbers identical to modern Major Arcana to the first five images. Although numbering problems surface later in the printing project, the wood-block printed sheet likely provides a good example of typical cards of that time. Obviously, symbols on this sheet like the forbidden image of legendary Pope John the VII, who allegedly served as Pope for a few years until pregnancy exposed her as a cross-dressing female offer the kind of religious symbolism a person tended to hide, not document, in the Middle Ages. Researchers widely believe The High Priestess card depicts legendary Pope Joan. In the Middle Ages, giggling peasants probably whispered the legend of the Popess to retaliate against the oppression of Roman Catholic aristocracy. Renaissance versions of The High Priestess card feature toned-down religious symbolism. Like the torture device shown on The Wheel of Fortune, Pope Joan offers a medieval link.

Rosenwald images of the Pope and Popess bear an uncanny resemblance to each other and the depiction of the Pope appears distinctly feminine. The concept of men and women holding equal religious rank suggest Gnosticism an ancient rival of Catholicism. Gnostic Christianity varies from Church doctrine in that Gnostics allow women equal positioning in religious hierarchy, which enraged the Catholic Church. Pope Innocent III openly labeled Gnosticism as heresy. The Albigensian Crusade from 1209 until 1255 CE represented efforts by the Roman Catholic Church to crush Gnostic Christian sects known as Cathers in Southern France. Having captured the small village of Servian, Crusaders headed for Béziers, arriving on July 21, 1209 CE. Although surrounded, the town refused demands to hand over the Catharists. The town fell the following day. After Crusaders followed a retreating counter-assault into the city, they slaughtered the entire population. Papal representative, Abbot Arnaud-Amaury, apparently declared, "Kill them all! God will recognize His own.” Over ten-thousand died in Béziers, although the town supposedly held around five-hundred Cathers. News of the horrors at Béziers rapidly spread, causing other target settlements to cow-down to the invaders. Cather strongholds progressively fell, the largest at Peyrepertuse in 1240 CE.

A small, isolated fort at Quéribus, appears the final holdout, overlooked until August 1255 CE, when Crusaders took swift action and it fell. Military efforts took a toll on Gnosticism but the real threat emerged as the Inquisition began in 1222 CE. The final Cather burning, by the Inquisition occurred in 1321 CE. No real evidence of European Gnostic practices survived efforts of the Church, which meticulously attempted to destroy all traces of actual beliefs of this rival Christian sect. If Papal officials perceived Tarot as a Gnostic practice, any evidence referring to the cards vanished in the same manner as most Gnostic writings. Gnosis is Greek for wisdom or knowledge but the term came to denote a variety of religions not condoned by the Church.

I can offer no other documented research paths for the Popess at this time. I fear Papal medling in history may impair your research but please keep me abridged of your findings on Pope Joan. I find it fascinating.
 

rachelcat

I'm thinking she originated as an allegorical figure of the Church or the Papacy (kind of like Lady Liberty). That's why she's wearing a papal tiara. Of course, Mary is also a type of the Church, so it all flows together. But then RWS shows the Empress with the 12 star crown and moon at her feet of Mary/Church/Woman of Revelations. So who knows . . .

Anyway, of everything I've read, allegorical figure makes more sense than legendary female pope. By the way, that old gossip was given new life in the Reformation as a way for protestants to ridicule the Catholic church! But it is a good story . . .
 

rachelcat

Wandking's post made me think of this:

He mentioned equal religious ranking of men and women. The Papess in the Visconti deck shows a woman in what looks like a nun's habit (plain brown robe with a rope for a belt) and a papal tiara.

It makes me think of religious orders of the middle ages that had monasteries with monks and nuns on the same "campus," with separate living quarters, of course. They were often ruled jointly by the abbot and the abbess. (Of course the nuns couldn't be priests, so they still had to confess and take mass from their "brother" monks who were. So separate but not equal!)

The first instance of this, and one of the first monasteries in Europe for that matter, was one founded by St. Benedict and his sister, St. Scholastica. Today there are Benedictine monks and nuns around the world. (But I don't know if there are any joint monasteries anymore. Another research project?) (My son went to a Benedictine high school, so I did some research to find out what it was all about!)

SO---the Papess = St. Scholastica, one of the first abbesses of Europe? Maybe not, but I always think of her when I see the Visconti card.
 

Sophie

Diana said:
Personally, I lean towards Mary Magdalene, because as the real founder of the Church (and not Peter as the Roman Catholic Church likes to make us believe) - that is why she would be called a Papess - as leader of the first Church - and also that is why she is holding the Book. (The Virgin Mary doesn't hold a book normally, she holds a baby Jesus on her lap).

I like the idea that La Papesse might be Mother Hildergard of Bingen, a 12th-century masterful nun, a mystic, a woman of knowledge, sensibility, great artistic and intellectual talent, and Europe-wide influence.

Probably as fanciful as Pope Joan ;) But I admit I often listen to Hildergard's plainchant compositions when I study the Tarot, and especially La Papesse.

...who is more likely to be one of the Marys as suggested by Diana. Why not Mary the sister of Lazarus, who was always listening avidly to the Nazarene's teaching, and in whom Jesus recognised a superior soul? That would make Martha L'Impératrice ;)
 

TemperanceAngel

Helvetica said:
Why not Mary the sister of Lazarus, who was always listening avidly to the Nazarene's teaching, and in whom Jesus recognised a superior soul? That would make Martha L'Impératrice ;)
Helvetica, why not indeed! Perhaps we should consider the differences and similarities between the two to help us decide?
 

Diana

Helvetica said:
Why not Mary the sister of Lazarus, who was always listening avidly to the Nazarene's teaching, and in whom Jesus recognised a superior soul?

But Mary Magdalene was Lazarus' sister, no?? (and also I believe that this is why Camoin put the Egg in his Papess. Because the story goes that the Magdalene took an Egg to Tiberius as a symbol of Jesus' resurrection.)