Umbrae
Er uh well - I used to drink at his place called The Royal Scot on the corner of Sutter and Hyde in San Francisco, Freddy owned it. It was back in the 70's, long gone now...
A Dummies Guide to Historical Research
le pendu
Umbrae said:
LOL!
I was just about to post that I used to work the graveyard shift at a diner on Polk Street in San Francisco when I was 19, and trust me, THAT was an education!
I probably served you a burger after last call!
(and we probably bumped into each other in Fields Bookstore!)
mjhurst
Hi, Ross,
First, after reading your credits, background and training, I don't think its fair. No wonder you're better at this "history" stuff.
Hmmm, credentials... hmmm... does talking with you qualify? Let's see, what did I cite on my site? Oh, yeah.
"I am not an authority on any of the subjects discussed here, nor a scholar of any kind—just a hobbyist with a home page."
Some credentials. Okay, let me try again. Well, since we're apparently counting "life experience" and the School of Hard Knocks, I used to hang out at a this place called TarotL, where folks like George Leake, James Revak, Tom Little, Bob Place, Bob O'Neill, Christian Hartman, and others would shoot the breeze about Tarot history, late-medieval and Renaissance culture, magic and mysticism, art and literature, etc. Oh, and I've read a few books...
Well, I'm gonna keep playing with the cards anyway, even without credentials.
First, after reading your credits, background and training, I don't think its fair. No wonder you're better at this "history" stuff.
Hmmm, credentials... hmmm... does talking with you qualify? Let's see, what did I cite on my site? Oh, yeah.
"I am not an authority on any of the subjects discussed here, nor a scholar of any kind—just a hobbyist with a home page."
Some credentials. Okay, let me try again. Well, since we're apparently counting "life experience" and the School of Hard Knocks, I used to hang out at a this place called TarotL, where folks like George Leake, James Revak, Tom Little, Bob Place, Bob O'Neill, Christian Hartman, and others would shoot the breeze about Tarot history, late-medieval and Renaissance culture, magic and mysticism, art and literature, etc. Oh, and I've read a few books...
Well, I'm gonna keep playing with the cards anyway, even without credentials.
baba-prague
le pendu said:
Now hold on a minute. If we're playing one upmanship I've worked bar too. Piccadilly Circus no less (though only at lunchtimes). I don't think I ever served the Dan guy though.
le pendu
baba-prague said:
You probably did without realizing it. He was the guy (in the corner, with a pint) flipping matchsticks all over the table.
Debra
Oh cripes. Not to imply AT ALL that one must have academic background to participate here. This is NOT about "my credentials vs. your credentials." This is NOT a matter of being SNOBBY about credentials.
The issue is ethics.
It is relevant because someone here has deliberately and persistently implied that objections to her work are misplaced because WE don't have HER purported credentials. She has implied that she is an academic historian, specializing in the relevant fields, with a university position, just dropping in to give us important info from a book in progress on a thesis that's been vetted by other academics. The impression given is that this poster is a professor of medieval history.
Giving this impression appears to be important to the poster BECAUSE it lends authority to what she says, and allows her to dismiss our questions as ill-informed.
The truth, best as I can tell, is that she is not a professor and does not have degrees in history or relevant fields beyond the bachelor's degree.
OK! No big deal. Much good research is done by talented amateurs. O'Neill isn't an academic historian, either. But he's clear, coherent, and lays out his evidence in an orderly way.
The problem is that we've now wasted a month on this forum trying to figure out what the great "professor" is trying to convey in a multiplicity of scatter shot postings purportedly giving us a peek behind the veil of the true tarot history.
Competent professors explain their ideas succinctly when asked to do so, answer questions and meet directions head-on, and give straightforward answers to when asked their qualifications. With that lacking, I became suspicious.
And like some others here, I know what professors "normally do" from experience. To avoid the "my credentials vs. your credentials" bit I'll answer in detail by pm; the brief outline is that I have a position as a university professor, a BA, MA and a Ph.D., and NOTHING in my career is AT ALL relevant to tarot.
BUT I do understand academic norms and I recognize when someone is trying to pull the wool over our eyes.
The issue is ethics.
It is relevant because someone here has deliberately and persistently implied that objections to her work are misplaced because WE don't have HER purported credentials. She has implied that she is an academic historian, specializing in the relevant fields, with a university position, just dropping in to give us important info from a book in progress on a thesis that's been vetted by other academics. The impression given is that this poster is a professor of medieval history.
Giving this impression appears to be important to the poster BECAUSE it lends authority to what she says, and allows her to dismiss our questions as ill-informed.
The truth, best as I can tell, is that she is not a professor and does not have degrees in history or relevant fields beyond the bachelor's degree.
OK! No big deal. Much good research is done by talented amateurs. O'Neill isn't an academic historian, either. But he's clear, coherent, and lays out his evidence in an orderly way.
The problem is that we've now wasted a month on this forum trying to figure out what the great "professor" is trying to convey in a multiplicity of scatter shot postings purportedly giving us a peek behind the veil of the true tarot history.
Competent professors explain their ideas succinctly when asked to do so, answer questions and meet directions head-on, and give straightforward answers to when asked their qualifications. With that lacking, I became suspicious.
And like some others here, I know what professors "normally do" from experience. To avoid the "my credentials vs. your credentials" bit I'll answer in detail by pm; the brief outline is that I have a position as a university professor, a BA, MA and a Ph.D., and NOTHING in my career is AT ALL relevant to tarot.
BUT I do understand academic norms and I recognize when someone is trying to pull the wool over our eyes.
Rosanne
All I did was post this thread and go to bed
So I will start where I left off.
DianeOD- I am always here, I never left and in part this thread was directed at you. In your post you have not spoken to the thread question/discussion. I did not know who you were when you dropped in to AT, and you did not explain. So all of a sudden I had confusion, which left me feeling like a Dummie. I had just recently had a similar experience at another place, that left me equally puzzled and somewhat gun-shy. Do you think that if you post something on a forum it belongs to you and cannot be questioned? I thank God as far as Tarot is concerned, that someone here would steer me in the right direction. I have had to apologise more than once for errors in my wanderings and wonderings. Mostly it has been hilarious like when I thought the Japanese copied the knave into the Joker when the Portuguese went there in the 16th century. I had egg all over my face- but as I had posted out there in public- I had to lick the egg off my face in public too! Everyone here is generous and helpful and not pretentious in the main. I do not think everyone knows it all and this is not a University- it is a forum.
AJ said that he/she hates the term Dummies. I have to agree, but it was self directed as in 'crash Test dummy' and a pun on the books- also I could not think of a title. Sorry AJ it was not directed at others.
MJHurst- thank you very much for your explanatory posts and a general discussion on how you view these threads. I learned a lot; and it goes to my recent puzzlements and confusion.
Gregory- thanks for the hug I know you Too- and I like discussion and debate too!
Ross- you are right, we do not need letters, but credentials help a great deal. A posting history helps as well. Thank you for your bio! I also thank you for when you call on something I have posted- it always helps.
Baba- That was fun your bio! I am glad you enjoyed giving it. Now you have me interested in Larsenic.
OnePotato- you and me are in the same boat- thanks for your reply.
Umbrae- sadly you belong to another or I would suggest we elope- but I think you would get sick of all the books I carry around, and love would die! Can't have that! I love to go swimming in your Myth river- don't stop posting that.
Robert- you have the roses and practical expertise- I have the Horticulture Diploma and no practical ability at all. We is both educated wot? somewot?
But to the question- what do you expect from me as a poster here?
Thanks for all your replies ~Rosanne
So I will start where I left off.
DianeOD- I am always here, I never left and in part this thread was directed at you. In your post you have not spoken to the thread question/discussion. I did not know who you were when you dropped in to AT, and you did not explain. So all of a sudden I had confusion, which left me feeling like a Dummie. I had just recently had a similar experience at another place, that left me equally puzzled and somewhat gun-shy. Do you think that if you post something on a forum it belongs to you and cannot be questioned? I thank God as far as Tarot is concerned, that someone here would steer me in the right direction. I have had to apologise more than once for errors in my wanderings and wonderings. Mostly it has been hilarious like when I thought the Japanese copied the knave into the Joker when the Portuguese went there in the 16th century. I had egg all over my face- but as I had posted out there in public- I had to lick the egg off my face in public too! Everyone here is generous and helpful and not pretentious in the main. I do not think everyone knows it all and this is not a University- it is a forum.
AJ said that he/she hates the term Dummies. I have to agree, but it was self directed as in 'crash Test dummy' and a pun on the books- also I could not think of a title. Sorry AJ it was not directed at others.
MJHurst- thank you very much for your explanatory posts and a general discussion on how you view these threads. I learned a lot; and it goes to my recent puzzlements and confusion.
Gregory- thanks for the hug I know you Too- and I like discussion and debate too!
Ross- you are right, we do not need letters, but credentials help a great deal. A posting history helps as well. Thank you for your bio! I also thank you for when you call on something I have posted- it always helps.
Baba- That was fun your bio! I am glad you enjoyed giving it. Now you have me interested in Larsenic.
OnePotato- you and me are in the same boat- thanks for your reply.
Umbrae- sadly you belong to another or I would suggest we elope- but I think you would get sick of all the books I carry around, and love would die! Can't have that! I love to go swimming in your Myth river- don't stop posting that.
Robert- you have the roses and practical expertise- I have the Horticulture Diploma and no practical ability at all. We is both educated wot? somewot?
But to the question- what do you expect from me as a poster here?
Thanks for all your replies ~Rosanne
baba-prague
No, it's Lasenic, though now I think I prefer L'Arsenic. I may invent him as a scandalous French occultist who hung around the bars of Prague and drank Absinthe. If he never existed, he should have.
Oh - and that's one of the things you do here Roseanne. I think you make it easier for other people to bring a bit of speculation and fun into the forums. The nice thing being that you do know it's speculation and you don't seem dogmatic. Playful rather.
Oh - and that's one of the things you do here Roseanne. I think you make it easier for other people to bring a bit of speculation and fun into the forums. The nice thing being that you do know it's speculation and you don't seem dogmatic. Playful rather.
gregory
I never said I is educated. 
I said I have a slew of paper qualifications.
One of them is even from Oxford. (it isn't as hard to get into as people think. Trust me; I know this !)
So b***** what ? I still only know one thing - no one *knows* about tarot. It is a mystery. I like it that way ! Take not my illusions from me.
I said I have a slew of paper qualifications.
One of them is even from Oxford.
(it isn't as hard to get into as people think. Trust me; I know this !)So b***** what ? I still only know one thing - no one *knows* about tarot. It is a mystery. I like it that way ! Take not my illusions from me.
Baroli
Umbrae said:
Le Pendu said:
Ahhhh, the school of real experience. Priceless.
The 70s I was entering college and extremely naive,...BUT I had my deck, and my nose in Hanon, Czerny, Bach, Debussy, and God help us Scarlatti.
