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Gonna learn Thoth if it kills me - Majors

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Alan Ross  Alan Ross is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon148
The Thoth Tarot is the gift that just keeps on giving.
It feels more like the teacher that keeps on giving homework. I keep wishing there was a Cliff's Notes for this stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Similia
Duquette's Chicken Qabalah is a good introduction to qabalah as it applies to the Thoth also.
I have it, but haven't made my way through all of it yet. It's a good intro so far as I can tell, but the cornball humor is almost more painful than the esoteric stuff. For something even more basic, I also like Isabel Kliegman's "Tarot and the Tree of Life: Finding Everyday Wisdom in the Minor Arcana," although it's keyed to the Rider Waite instead of the Thoth.

Alan
Top   #31
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rachelcat  rachelcat is offline
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Talking Go Nicky Go!


In the IDS thread, I was going to suggest that Thoth studiers DON"T start with the Fool. There are just so many symbols on the card, and Fool concepts are very spiritual/advanced. Plus TWO essays in the Book of Thoth! Back when I only had Banzaf and Book of Thoth and I sat down to read them on my lunch break(!), I thought there is no way I'm going to learn this.

Then I got serious, like you, and did a full year study, complete with pathworking. But now, after many sidetracks with kabbalah, astrology, etc., I'm getting even more out of it with my card a day refresher!

You are doing a great job, even though you started with the Fool! Keep the faith, baby!
Top   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Fanu
So glad this thread popped up! Im in the same position as you nicky. I have been picking the Thoth up, admiring it and then putting it down again for a while now. Ive read DuQuette and regularly consult Banzhaf´s Keywords for the Crowley Tarot. But I do think it is a deck which you can really just LOOK, LOOK and then LOOK some more.

Ive taken to carying my pocket Thoth around and just wallowing in it´s images, doing a daily draw and just thinking...

Scion´s posts in the "Working with one deck" thread have inspired me. The Thoth seems to me to be the obvious deck I would want to work with. Im not setting myself any rules or deadlines. All I know is that I want to know the Thoth better.

I think of it as excavation. I will enjoy the digging, may never uncover everything I want, but whatever I unearth will be enriching.

The problem I have with the Crowley Tarot is not the images (I hasten to add) but the references in the literature. The names which are referenced (Hadit, Aesculap, Abraxas, the list goes on) I never know who they are. Then there are the Kabbalah references. Then - to be honest - my knowledge of astrology is virtually non-existant (I mean, what does it mean that the Star is Aquarius?) and so I wonder just how much I can get out of it. And the concepts of fire in water, and air in fire or whatever... I have quite a few stumbling blocks.

But lock me in a sunlit room with the deck itself and I would be blissfully happy. O but the textual/mythological references just swamp me. Every time.

I sooooooooo know what you are saying...
Regarding the deities, the search to find them has been a learning experience in itself... and of course leads me again to the feeling that all paths end up heading to the same place. The mythic references not only explain what Crowley was trying to convey, they also are transcultural and we can see the concept in so many other myths it makes me smile... that humanity the world over and since time began has been naming and worshipping and contemplating the same ideas in their own way ... makes me feel part of a bigger journey.

I took a class with DuQuette on the Chicken Kaballah which was a nice introduction to something that would take me a lifetime to understand, but it was a good understandable base... I suggest it wholeheartedly.

Astrology is the problem I have with this deck... why Crowley changed the order of the planets is still a problem for me.

Well perhaps this quest to understand the deck will change my mind re: the astrological associations... if not at least I will have learned a ton of new things along the way

blessings,
Nicky
Top   #33
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Le Fanu  Le Fanu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky
Astrology is the problem I have with this deck... why Crowley changed the order of the planets is still a problem for me
Blimey, so even if I studied astrology, got myself a primer, it would bear no resemblance to astrology as seen through the prism of Thoth...

I shalln´t be intimidated though. My plan is just to focus on the images, keep looking, drawing, thinking and re-reading DuDuette "Understanding the Crowley &c". If I start running this way and that like a headless chicken I´ll get nowhere and - most significantly - not enjoy myself!

Im going to trust my own eye, and DuQuette for the theory.
Top   #34
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Scion  Scion is offline
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No, no. A good astrological primer will help enormously. Although you have to remember that Crowley's astrology is NOT modern sunsign astrology (which is largely a product of theosophy). But the basic sense of planetary forces, the zodiac, and the houses will be enormously helpful. CRowley ghostwrote some stuff for Evangeline Adams which is solid if a little turgid. Still, a solid grasp of traditional astrology can help as much as a grasp of basic QBLH when you're studying.

The main thing to keep in mind if you're reading a modern astrological text is that traditionally, the zodiac is relatively unimportant; it's the planets which produce force and effects. The signs only become pivotal when Alan Leo (et al) decided to toss out all that tricky math and dumb things down for the papers and the punters.

I'm not sure what Nicky means when she says Crowley changed the order of the planets. He uses the GD order, which in turn is the classical order,used for a couple thousand years, which proceeds up through the spheres to the primum mobile.

Moon
Mercury
Venus
Sun
Mars
Jupiter
Saturn
Attached Images
 
Top   #35
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Le Fanu  Le Fanu is offline
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Le Fanu 

A question; if one were to try and get a working knowledge of astrology for Thoth/Tarot purposes, what ought one to be focussing on then? The planets and what they mean rather than "Capricorns are melancholy and materialistic" &c

Your posts are always a huge help, Scion.
Top   #36
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Scion  Scion is offline
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Scion 

IMO, absolutely. Modern sun sign astrology uses a lot of the same vocabulary but has tossed a lot of the metaphysics from which the terms derive... so it doesn't go much further than adjectival perkiness. Go to the source.

To tackle the astrology in the Thoth (or really any GD deck) I think a very helpful approach is to think about the worldview bound up in it. Unlike Qabalah, astrology explicitly formed the underpinnings of LOTS of european arts and sciences... esp. metaphysics, doctrine of the humors, and thence temperament.

I spent a lot of years dismissing astrology because I associated it with the fluffy horseshit into which the "Queen of the Sciences" has devolved. Just keep reminding yourself, newspaper zodiac astrology is NOT what's on offer in the Thoth. Don't worry too much about signs, focus on the the planets which are the power SOURCE. Whenever you look at a modern book on (psychological) astrology keep telling yourself: planet NOT sign, planet NOT sign. Look at Dignity and Reception.

John Frawley's Real Astrology is hilarious and eye-opening. Ditto Olivia Barclay's Horary Astrology Rediscovered. Lehman's Classical Astrology for Modern Living is a little hardcore if you just want an intro. But it's awesome. One of my faves is Geoffrey Cornelius' Moment of Astrology, which is a beautiful book about divination in general, but Astrology specifically. All of those authors are working traditional astrologers that have worked hard to restore the rigor and vigor to the discipline. Incidentally, C.S. Lewis' Discarded Image is a terrific attempt at a glimpse of the medieval worldview, though not focused on astrology. The Skyscript website has wonderful articles and books available. I posted a list of links and books over in the Golden Dawn tradition subforum: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...6&page=3&pp=10

The rough part is, most GD scholarship focuses on Qabalah. There aren't a lot of good astrology resources that are easily found. But the material is out there.

Let me know if I can help in any other way.

Scion
Top   #37
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Grigori  Grigori is offline
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Grigori 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Ross
I have it, but haven't made my way through all of it yet. It's a good intro so far as I can tell, but the cornball humor is almost more painful than the esoteric stuff.
I liked the cornball humour

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scion
John Frawley's Real Astrology is hilarious and eye-opening.
I'd second that recommendation, it was a great read. And if you decide you'd like to work with some charts one day, his book on Horary Astrology is a great next step. Its like astrology with training wheels.
Top   #38
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Le Fanu  Le Fanu is offline
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Le Fanu 

Thank you so much for that.. I might chase up the Cornelius or the Olivia Barclay as background reading...

Got a better sense of direction now...
Top   #39
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Scion  Scion is offline
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It is! Perfectly put. Astrology with training wheels, but without padding.
Top   #40




 


 


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