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Gonna learn Thoth if it kills me - Majors

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Verdi's Avatar
Verdi  Verdi is offline
Join Date: 02 Dec 2007
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 174

Originally Posted by Aeon418
The Thoth isn't just some modern day, shallow, comercial deck that you can pick and master within a couple of months, get bored of and throw it aside crying "Next!". On the contrary, it's a deck for life. It grows with you. The more effort you put into it, the more you will get out of it.
How aptly put. I am deep now in my "starting studies" of the Thoth etc. The images and thoughts behind the Thoth are so exciting and giving.

On the night of Robert Burns 250 birthday;

"In April 1905 an old mountaineering friend arrived[at Boleskine], Dr. Jacot Guillarmod, and Crowley could not resist taking him on an arduous hunt for a wild and ferocious Highland beast called the haggis: Guillarmod duly shot a disguised elderly ram in the fog and was solemnly presented with its horns as a trophy of his prowess"
Gerald Suster: "The legacy of the Beast"

Top   #41
nicky's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Scion

I'm not sure what Nicky means when she says Crowley changed the order of the planets. He uses the GD order, which in turn is the classical order,used for a couple thousand years, which proceeds up through the spheres to the primum mobile.

I think my confusion is the reordering of some of the cards to fit both the Hebrew letters and the signs. Mind you I am pretty befuddled here so bear with me.. I should have said the signs not the planets..(however I am confident Crowley would have been confident he could move large planets if he chose LOL).

Let me give you one that I think I kind of understand and what is uncomfortable.. in my heart of hearts Justice is half way through the majors, it seems a wonderful place for the scales and balance and Libra, yet here Crowley places Strength (Leo). So we end up with Leo coming before Libra...weird to me..

I have attached the twisted zodiac from Lon's book.. (God knows he does a better job than I can explaining this.)

I think the problem is even with a genius like Crowley... no system ever fits perfectly with Tarot. Astrology, Kaballah, Numerology, etc.. they may correspond with Tarot but none is a perfect fit.. Tarot is its own system.

Did that make any sense?

Attached Images
Top   #42
Scion's Avatar
Scion  Scion is offline
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Yes. Absolutely. The thing is, Crowley didn't do that, that one is all Golden Dawn. The Emperor/Star thing is Crowley's. Equally problematic, so I hear you talking. The GD just wanted the perfect lign up of Leo/Strength and Libra/ Justice... Crowley just adopted it.

And as you say all systems have compromises.
Top   #43
Always Wondering's Avatar
Always Wondering  Always Wondering is offline
Join Date: 04 Mar 2008
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Always Wondering 

Originally Posted by gregory
This looks like a promising thread
Yippie. Deck, deck deck. Better late than never I hope, gregory.
Wonderful to see all these faces in this corner of
AT. Now all we need is Lilly and it will be a party.

Now back to the serious. I found the Similia's Book T and the astrological signs study group very helpful. I know it has already been mentioned but I wanted to second it and post a link.

Top   #44
Alan Ross  Alan Ross is offline
Join Date: 23 Dec 2006
Location: California USA
Posts: 862
Alan Ross 

Originally Posted by nicky
anyone got a clue what the flower type dealio is below the Fools spread legs?
Originally Posted by GeorgiePorgie
Duquette says (about the flowers) that "hangs the benediction of three flowers in one" Not sure what that means...
I finally got around to seeing what Snuffin had to say about this in his book "The Thoth Companion." He says that "the benediction of three flowers in one" refers to the final He of the Tetragrammaton (Yod He Vau He), which he sees as "the Daughter attributed to the element of Earth, who is the product of the Father, Mother, and Son."

I'm assuming this is a reference to the four Qabalistic worlds - Assiah, Yetzirah, Briah, and Assiah - where Assiah, associated with the final He, is the crystallization of the other three "worlds" in the material world. Assiah and the final He is also associated with the Princess in Crowley's court cards, thus Snuffin's reference to "daughter." DuQuette has the following to say about the Princess: "She is the daughter of the Knight and Queen and sister/lover of the Prince. (In certain ways, she is also viewed as the daughter of the Prince.)"

Top   #45
Yygdrasilian's Avatar
Yygdrasilian  Yygdrasilian is offline
Join Date: 11 Nov 2008
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Posts: 618
There's an Elephant in the Room

Originally Posted by Scion
Not once in all the tens of thousands of words we wrote in that thread could anyone provide a single example of a useful lesson offered by Arrien... Not one topic that isn't covered elsewhere by someone more competent and knowledgable... Not a single "insight" of Arrien's that added to an understanding of the Thoth... Not even basic information, let alone interpretation. I asked and asked for something, anything, positive people could cite in her defense, but never got answer. Even from her one dogged supporter, a friend and former student. NOT ONE EXAMPLE. Talk about damning with faint praise.

Gosh, Scion, it was my very first post here on Aeclectic and I'd so hoped you'd have remembered. Perhaps it slipped by without much notice.

I agree, much of Arrien's work is misleading and hokey, but the archetypal matrices she offers with the Constellations are the means to understanding Thoth's book and the true function of Tarot. I doubt she came up with them herself, as Crowley does seem to hint of them.

And, speaking of 2012...

Top   #46
gregory's Avatar
gregory  gregory is offline
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Thumbs down

Originally Posted by Yygdrasilian
Eve already made that mistake. No thanks.

Top   #47
Le Fanu's Avatar
Le Fanu  Le Fanu is offline
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Le Fanu 

Just checked out Similiaīs thread.. (linked by Always Wondering)... A huge help.... Thank you so much for that....Now I get it. I too had always wondered about all this Cardinal and Fire and how on earth did we know r.e the cards? Who said so? Now it makes sense...

(surely there must have been threads before like this, vowing to get to grips with the Thoth. I bet they get posted every fortnight or so, donīt they?)

P:S; a question. Slight aside. Hope no-one minds. What is this deluxe edition of Crowley?

What does it have that the others donīt?
Top   #48
gregory's Avatar
gregory  gregory is offline
Cat on a cold stone roof
Join Date: 01 Jan 2004
Location: The world of the things that could have been.
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As I recall, I think it is just the large size one - a good quality printing. I am sure there is a thread here..... Look slike the large box Muller in TarotGarden's Thoth table....

OMG there are millions of threads. You search !

E-mail tarotchest if you like - but it looks JUST like my nice except for the white borders on the backs Muller one.
Top   #49
Le Fanu's Avatar
Le Fanu  Le Fanu is offline
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Le Fanu 

thank you gregory! It was you I wanted to hear from! Back on topic now...
Top   #50



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