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&@& 5 of swords

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&@& 5 of swords


Yes, those symbols stand for bad words.
Of all the cards in the tarot this one gives me the shakes. I almost start crying as a Pavlovian response when it comes up. Right now it's stalking me. I find it hard to see anything other than defeat, humiliation, a feeling of being one-upped. But I feel there is a lesson in this card I must learn. Do I carry this feeling with me, always creating a situation not in my best interests? Is it representing past patterns I can easily break, a mindset? I would like to learn what I can and move forward from the crippling sense of inadequacy this card raises for me.
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You assume the two figures in the background of the card have been defeated. What if they walked away in a "I'm not playing with you" or a "I can't be bothered with you" way? The figure in the foreground thinks he's won, but has he really? The card could be saying to you, "Don't engage him. Walk away."

On the flip side, the card could be telling you to look at where you might be a bully (or at least perceived as one by your peers). Are you being domineering? Taking things that aren't yours to take? Or even dominating conversations and not giving others the chance to speak?

All of the above are 5 Swords type things to consider.

Rodney
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Rodney - I am LOVING that first interpretation! And I'm happy to reflect on the second. I really do like the take you have on it. Exactly why I asked - for the fresh perspective. Definitely that first angle is the better psychological position for me to consider at the moment, so Thankyou!
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To me the 5 swords represents dishonorable behavior for some sort of temporary gain. Remember, you do have control of your own behavior. There is nothing in this card that indicates others somehow forcing you to behave badly or out of character. IMHO.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haley View Post
To me the 5 swords represents dishonorable behavior for some sort of temporary gain. Remember, you do have control of your own behavior. There is nothing in this card that indicates others somehow forcing you to behave badly or out of character. IMHO.
This card has never come up to represent dishonest or dishonorable behavior on my part, but rather to reflect my own feelings of humiliation and despair when I feel I have not achieved what I wanted, or have been treated badly by someone else. In this case it reflects the inadequacy and insecurity I feel at having believed in a relationship and person who ultimately walked away with someone else after I had sacrificed a great deal to try to make it work. My feelings in that instance are of being an idiot, which is what this card always reminds me of.
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As I tend to say, I feel that we depend too much on RWS images. I am not saying that they don't matter - sometimes they speak literally - but still, the symbolism of the cards is far more extensive and deeper than the RWS representations.

5 is a number of challenge, it is in the middle of the set (10-1), it is between 4 and 6, and it can also be related to Hierophant, if you chose to use Major Arcana connotations. Then, you can also look at astrological connotations, if you chose, of course again there may be different systems.

All the fives for me are, firstly, a temporary thing, since they are a bit unstable, it is a challenge and challenge are by nature not stable. We have balance and harmony in 6, then the challenge, and structure in 4. Hence, 5 is a certain kind of a break-down - which can be very good and useful.
It is a break-down or challenge in the air element, the element of the mental, mind, thought. If we relate it to Hierophant: a break down of the usual, established patterns of thinking or behaviour. Astrologically it is Venus in Aquarius - a 'stranger', someone who has their own ideas, innovative, original, non-conventional.

So, 5 of swords is simply: think outside the box and stand up for your own beliefs, even if they differ from the majorty or collectively accepted values (Hierophant). This can sometimes lead to feeling excluded, alone, even lonely, but there is courage and even a certain fight in this, hence the 'conflict'. Conflicts are needed for growth. Without the conflict we remain mellow, weak, we cannot assert ourselves, we are just part of the crowd, we do what we are told to do (Hierophant). Little sheep. Conflict makes us sharper, more decisive, integrated. it is needed sometimes. Life is full of 'conflict'. Birth is a certain 'conflict' - child needs to leave behind the warm and safe womb in order to start his life. We need to cut the cord, we need to separate. Number 5 in this sense corresponds also to the 5th house of the horoscope, where we find the child. Child needs her own identity - she needs to go into 'conflict' with her parents, with her background (Hierophant) to start her individual path.

So, don't be afraid of the conflict, don't fear certain allienation - it is needed in order to become fully who you are, and not just a carbon copy. 5 of swords is a challenge to think for yourself, act for yourself - which, of course, is not socially accepted, we are supposed to be 'good girls' and 'good boys'. Perhaps this fight/conflict/challenge aspect of the card touches some of these issues inside of you - maybe you were raised to be good, kind, accepting and this may be your nature, but then the shadow follows where the opposite is constellated which we fear and won't accept. But we have to, since life is still dual, and softness combines with hardness, peace with conflict, altruism with egotism, etc. They are all needed to make us whole.

Just some thoughts.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wind View Post
As I tend to say, I feel that we depend too much on RWS images. I am not saying that they don't matter - sometimes they speak literally - but still, the symbolism of the cards is far more extensive and deeper than the RWS representations.

5 is a number of challenge, it is in the middle of the set (10-1), it is between 4 and 6, and it can also be related to Hierophant, if you chose to use Major Arcana connotations. Then, you can also look at astrological connotations, if you chose, of course again there may be different systems.

All the fives for me are, firstly, a temporary thing, since they are a bit unstable, it is a challenge and challenge are by nature not stable. We have balance and harmony in 6, then the challenge, and structure in 4. Hence, 5 is a certain kind of a break-down - which can be very good and useful.
It is a break-down or challenge in the air element, the element of the mental, mind, thought. If we relate it to Hierophant: a break down of the usual, established patterns of thinking or behaviour. Astrologically it is Venus in Aquarius - a 'stranger', someone who has their own ideas, innovative, original, non-conventional.

So, 5 of swords is simply: think outside the box and stand up for your own beliefs, even if they differ from the majorty or collectively accepted values (Hierophant). This can sometimes lead to feeling excluded, alone, even lonely, but there is courage and even a certain fight in this, hence the 'conflict'. Conflicts are needed for growth. Without the conflict we remain mellow, weak, we cannot assert ourselves, we are just part of the crowd, we do what we are told to do (Hierophant). Little sheep. Conflict makes us sharper, more decisive, integrated. it is needed sometimes. Life is full of 'conflict'. Birth is a certain 'conflict' - child needs to leave behind the warm and safe womb in order to start his life. We need to cut the cord, we need to separate. Number 5 in this sense corresponds also to the 5th house of the horoscope, where we find the child. Child needs her own identity - she needs to go into 'conflict' with her parents, with her background (Hierophant) to start her individual path.

So, don't be afraid of the conflict, don't fear certain allienation - it is needed in order to become fully who you are, and not just a carbon copy. 5 of swords is a challenge to think for yourself, act for yourself - which, of course, is not socially accepted, we are supposed to be 'good girls' and 'good boys'. Perhaps this fight/conflict/challenge aspect of the card touches some of these issues inside of you - maybe you were raised to be good, kind, accepting and this may be your nature, but then the shadow follows where the opposite is constellated which we fear and won't accept. But we have to, since life is still dual, and softness combines with hardness, peace with conflict, altruism with egotism, etc. They are all needed to make us whole.

Just some thoughts.
Wind, this is magnificent.
In fact the current situation in my life is one where I am choosing to walk away from the patterns of 'good' behaviour you describe above. My pattern is one of insisting on the need for compassion and understanding of the other at all costs - particularly at my own cost, it would seem! I just had the pattern pointed out to me by a body work therapist today and so it resonates strongly with what you wrote.
I find the fives always interesting, and this past year, as I have confronted many old patterns, I have been dealing with them a lot - the hierophant too. I feel your take on the card is a really insightful one, and very useful to me. Breaking up mental patterns - I will think on that as I work with it moving forward.
I very much appreciate your input, it has really added something for me.

Best wishes
xx
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Hi Reina

So sorry you are being stalked by the 5 swords!

I think this is just that you feel trapped in a no win situation in general right now. Swords are thoughts. You could be weighing your losses and if you move you may make a win but something else will suffer badly.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimini View Post
Hi Reina

So sorry you are being stalked by the 5 swords!

I think this is just that you feel trapped in a no win situation in general right now. Swords are thoughts. You could be weighing your losses and if you move you may make a win but something else will suffer badly.

Bless you for this! You are probably quite right, and I am working on that trapped feeling. I appreciate your kindness very much xx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina de Copas View Post
Wind, this is magnificent.
In fact the current situation in my life is one where I am choosing to walk away from the patterns of 'good' behaviour you describe above. My pattern is one of insisting on the need for compassion and understanding of the other at all costs - particularly at my own cost, it would seem! I just had the pattern pointed out to me by a body work therapist today and so it resonates strongly with what you wrote.
I find the fives always interesting, and this past year, as I have confronted many old patterns, I have been dealing with them a lot - the hierophant too. I feel your take on the card is a really insightful one, and very useful to me. Breaking up mental patterns - I will think on that as I work with it moving forward.
I very much appreciate your input, it has really added something for me.

Best wishes
xx
Hey,
I am really glad it made sense - even when we are compassionate, we still accept the conflict. They do not exclude each other...you know how they say, 'sometimes you need to be cruel in order to be kind'. Sometimes the 'kindest' thing is to show someone clearly what an idiot they are and say 'no' to their behaviour. Compassion is not 'yielding' and accepting all the BS. People, all of us, need wake up calls - and the pain is there to give us that. What is right, wrong, should be, how it should be...all this can keep us trapped and not growing. So, slaps are needed and confrontations. To grow a spine, to grow some bones.

We need to know how to confront people and issues and also how to accept a break-down. Just giving and understanding can hinder not only us but also the other person. If we just give and give and do not demand anything for ourselves, we make the other feel obligated, guilty...there is a subtle ego in this endless 'giving'. So, it is important to take care of ourselves and also say a big no, set boundaries and also drive someone away if needed. This helps us and also helps the other person - since they know what is acceptable for you and not. They also get balanced, they get clear. If you don't state openly what is ok and what not, they cannot know it and they start to resent it and take revenge.

These are all power issues, not so much compassion issues. People have problems with power - they assert it too much or too little. Especially women tend to be uncomfortable with power, since we are conditioned to be caretakers, givers, mothers. And we are it, of course, but we need to learn how to be in touch with the power centre as well.

People who tend to avoid conflict at all costs or don't express their negative feelings, when they are pissed off, annoyed or just don't want to put up with something, tend to provoke even more anger in others. 'Peaceful people' tend to attract conflictual people, victims attract bullies - so that they start to balance things and also get in touch with their own negative tendencies, which still exist but can be largely suppressed.

It is like the chakras - we do not only have the heart chakra, centre of compassion, we also have third chakra, centre of power and ego. And first chakra, centre of survival. They all need to work and the higher needs to be supported by the lower.

What I am saying is, the negative tendencies need to be accepted too, and fully integrated. Your 'yes', needs to have the balance of 'no'. Until you have developed a healthy ego center and your own power, bullies come to test you

So, just be in your power, I would say this is also a lesson of 5 of swords...and most certainly, walk away from people who don't treat you nicely. This is taking power back, having your own integrity.
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