"Intuition" versus "book learned"

euripides

Anyankah said:
Math is all about intuition, though maybe a simpler kind than what many people are thinking of when they think of intuition in tarot. What mathematicians do is (1) study the structure of things, (2) make leaps of intuition about new ways to put things together, and then (3) build a new structure (the proof) to make sure that their leap was correct and to explain it to other people.

Ooh nice, like it. I struggled with maths (we stick an 's' on it here in Oz) but did the double subject in final year (pure and applied)... didn't study. I started doing it by correspondence while at uni doing art, but realised that was really silly! I always see a beauty in maths - formulae for curves.... the patterns of numbers... yes, its wonderful stuff. My lids love patterns and numbers and we have the most exciting conversations about prime numbers and number lines and negatives - I just wish I HAD gone and done that correspondence maths - I hope I don't mess it up telling them the wrong thing.

Which has nothing to do with the relevance of math(s) to Tarot, which I thought was also interesting.

I sometimes think of Tarot images as being a bit like Icons: they are a sort of door to meaning, not really representing the thing itself but serving as a window, leading contemplation from the tangible to the intangible, from the physical to the spiritual plane.
 

le pendu

Both.

If I went to see a doctor, I'd expect her to be well studied, especially in her specialty. On the other hand, if she didn't take into account who I was, right there and then.. the way I sounded, the way I looked, and moved, and talked, it wouldn't matter at all how many books she's read.

If I went to an architect, I'd expect him to be well studied, especially in his specialty. On the other hand, if his design for my house was all about him rather than about me, or just spilling plans out that have nothing to do with who I am and how I want to live, it wouldn't matter at all how many books he's read.

I wouldn't trust someone who had not built their skills on a solid foundation of study and experience, nor would I trust someone that didn't use their intuition, observation, and common sense to work with me to find a solution to what I seek.

Of course, it's easy enough to say that these are unfair comparisons... and that's probably true. I'm fond of pointing out that ALL of the meanings are made up.. by someone.

I personally feel a debt to the creator of a deck to read what they have to say about the meanings of the cards. If I'm reading with a Thoth, I like knowing why Crowley chose the iconography that he did, and why certain symbolism was chosen. It's a base. I like reading the companion books to decks like the Tarot of Prague, or the Cosmic Tribe, it adds a dimension to the cards, and often adds to the visual vocabulary.

On the other hand, I'm not much of a reader, so keep that in mind. But if I were a client, I'd want the reader to be informed AND intuitive.
 

Apocalipstick

Seems to me that intuition is another form of knowledge.

It requires information to put into practice, and quite a bit of analytical skill--whether you're aware of it or not.
 

gregory

I would have said (I think I am saying !) that the whole point of intuition is that it isn't knowledge - it comes from somewhere beyond that ? You can't "invoke" it, for instance. It happens or it doesn't. Knowledge you can dig into, look up things in, remember etc. You just can't do that with intuition.
 

kisou

^I sorta agree. Granted, I did start this thread and have sort of looked n00b-ish the entire time... I think that intuition is almost a benchmark of sorts. I think it requires some level of self control to be able to surrender to something past conventional knowledge and structural facts and be confident and comfortable doing that.
 

Keigh

Kisou - I haven't read through all the replies, but will share with you my experience. In the beginning, I too, read and memorized many book meanings. I also found that, even when the same deck was the basis, for example the RWS, many book authors had slightly different interpretations of the same cards. This confused me so I tried to integrate them all. For awhile I felt as if I should stop reading. Then I decided to try reading again, without books. Now I read solely via via the intuitive method - letting the stories or words that pop into my head lead the reading based upon what I am seeing in the card. It is important, however, to remember that all those books I read form the base or foundation of my knowlege and my intuitive readings will have that to draw from.

I think of it this way. Every card is layered with meaning (colors, imagery, symbolism, numeric, mytholigical, etc) - yes, they all have a core meaning - but that is just one aspect of what they mean. The beauty and the art of Tarot is in interpreting the layers. Not only do the meanings change based upon where they are in a thread, but by the question asked and what cards are surrounding them. That's why using your intuition - once you've established a knowledge base, is IMHO, the best way to read.

It sounds to me as if you are on the right track!

Keigh
 

euripides

What about when intuition clashes with learning?

If I read a card a certain way - I look at them, get a certain feeling about them - but then the querent goes "no, but that card can mean such-and-such, I think that's what it means..." - - what then?

I'm trying to 'stretch my wings' as it were and trust my instincts, but in letting myself - depart- from the RWS set meanings, the querent thinks I've totally misread the cards. So does this mean I need to learn the established meanings more securely so that I can say, "well, in that context maybe so, but this card is such-and-such a dignity and in this position it means blah blah" with authority, or, do I just say, "That's what I'm feeling. I think I'm right. Time will tell?"
 

Anyankah

I'd say the cards were dealt to be read by you and if that's how you read them then that's what they mean.
 

Nholdamek

euripides said:
What about when intuition clashes with learning?

If I read a card a certain way - I look at them, get a certain feeling about them - but then the querent goes "no, but that card can mean such-and-such, I think that's what it means..." - - what then?

I'm trying to 'stretch my wings' as it were and trust my instincts, but in letting myself - depart- from the RWS set meanings, the querent thinks I've totally misread the cards. So does this mean I need to learn the established meanings more securely so that I can say, "well, in that context maybe so, but this card is such-and-such a dignity and in this position it means blah blah" with authority, or, do I just say, "That's what I'm feeling. I think I'm right. Time will tell?"

This may sound harsh but...

You're the one reading. if the querent argues, then they can go do their own reading and save their money. But they're not, and they've asked you, so it's up to you to interpret the cards, not them.

Now if they're not familiar with the cards at all, and they see the image on the card and it triggers something in them and it just clicks, then that's something different I think. But in general, they're asking you to do the reading, and so you interpret the cards how you feel is appropriate. they can take it or leave it.
 

mollymawk

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