Chariot???

Demon Goddess said:

I disagree wholeheartedly.

I've been reading for more years than not and never had a difficulty getting what someone else was thinking, feeling, believing.

It is the reader who will influence their own ability to pick up on those aspects. If you don't believe it can be done... then it cannot.

Simple as that...

But then... that's me.

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Picking up on what someone else is thinking...feeling...believing...

This is an aspect of being skilled as a communicator. And as a human being. But that's true of all people, and all species. We are able to read one another fairly accurately and fairly frequently, or we simply don't cut it as human beings.

For me, this aspect of communication has everything to do with psychology, and nothing to do with the collective unconscious, or the astral, or however you want to think of it. The level on which forces "beyond our understanding" must operate, if there's to be any validity to them at all.

To be sure, part of being a successful reader is the ability to understand people. Context is everything, and oftentimes, the cards give a message that only makes sense when you look at it through the lens of psychology.

But if one accepts that the Tarot speaks to a reader via a conduit the Universe set up through the subconscious mind -- then that's the level at which fundamental human psychology DOESN'T operate.

Again, it's a question of what you believe, to a degree. And believe me, I have a wider acceptance of the many ways the Universe might work than your average Joe or Jill on the street. But like psychology, the Tarot...other divination tools...the entire premise of the occult...operates upon a logical structure.

I feel that interpreting within the bounds of that structure gives the best chance for success, and gives a querent the most honest possible reading.

I feel that stretching those boundaries without being able to explain why they ought to be stretched, takes us into the realm of wishful thinking.

I don't doubt for a second that you've had great success reading people. But I question whether that ought to be attributed to your skill with the Tarot, rather than your skill with people.

John Callaghan said:

Picking up on what someone else is thinking...feeling...believing...

This is an aspect of being skilled as a communicator. And as a human being. But that's true of all people, and all species. We are able to read one another fairly accurately and fairly frequently, or we simply don't cut it as human beings.

For me, this aspect of communication has everything to do with psychology, and nothing to do with the collective unconscious, or the astral, or however you want to think of it. The level on which forces "beyond our understanding" must operate, if there's to be any validity to them at all.

To be sure, part of being a successful reader is the ability to understand people. Context is everything, and oftentimes, the cards give a message that only makes sense when you look at it through the lens of psychology.

But if one accepts that the Tarot speaks to a reader via a conduit the Universe set up through the subconscious mind -- then that's the level at which fundamental human psychology DOESN'T operate.

Again, it's a question of what you believe, to a degree. And believe me, I have a wider acceptance of the many ways the Universe might work than your average Joe or Jill on the street. But like psychology, the Tarot...other divination tools...the entire premise of the occult...operates upon a logical structure.

I feel that interpreting within the bounds of that structure gives the best chance for success, and gives a querent the most honest possible reading.

I feel that stretching those boundaries without being able to explain why they ought to be stretched, takes us into the realm of wishful thinking.

I don't doubt for a second that you've had great success reading people. But I question whether that ought to be attributed to your skill with the Tarot, rather than your skill with people.

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I have Asperger's Syndrome... Trust me on this... it's the Tarot

Demon Goddess said:

I disagree wholeheartedly.

I've been reading for more years than not and never had a difficulty getting what someone else was thinking, feeling, believing.

It is the reader who will influence their own ability to pick up on those aspects. If you don't believe it can be done... then it cannot.

Simple as that...

But then... that's me.

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Oh and I so agree with Demon Goddess, here. Couldn't have said it better.
I've been doing it for a while too and yes it can be done.

John Callaghan said:

But if one accepts that the Tarot speaks to a reader via a conduit the Universe set up through the subconscious mind -- then that's the level at which fundamental human psychology DOESN'T operate.

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Oh, so if that is the case, how is it possible for us to read for someone we don't even know, and since we are doing it over the internet, we have no idea who they look like, and we can't gauge what we are saying to them, what we get in a reading, if we are on the right track or not? Yes, I can understand that if it was face to face, and you are good at reading body language and facial expressions you would know if you are on the right track, or veered right of it. The internet does not allow for that, we can't see them, we can't hear them, and in most cases we don't even know what they look like. So, how on earth can you say that tarot reading is not a conduit the Universe set up through the subconscious mind?

If you can read for a complete stranger over the internet, so why can't you get what a person thinks/feels about you via the same method?

Sorry, John, but I am with Demon Goddess on this one!

John Callaghan said:

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I don't doubt for a second that you've had great success reading people. But I question whether that ought to be attributed to your skill with the Tarot, rather than your skill with people.

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Of course it is one's skill with the tarot especially when the reading is done over the internet.

For internet readings, questions such as "Am I pregnant?", "Should I take the job... yes/no?", "When will I meet my soul mate?"... such questions severely limits the guidance the tarot can potentially give and it doesn't leave the querent much room to contribute to positive changes in their lives.

Tarot , to me, can be used in many ways.. it really depends on the readers' methods of reading, abilities and the way the card is interpreted but equally as important is the readers' own understanding of the question the querent is asking.

leelee said:

How would you interperate the Chariot as "how does someone view me physically?"

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Let's assume this is a hypothetical question whereby the reader is performing a routine self-practice reading.

While I do agree it infringes on someone else's privacy if the question is phrased in a manner that is meant to be intrusive, this question can also be viewed as a general opinion of how the querent is "perceived" by people in his/her environment. It can help the querent understand his/her contribution *especially if they are having difficulties with interpersonal issues. It really depends on how the reader understands the question asked by the querent as well.

(*especially meaning if the person is facing such challenges, not necessarily meaning that the querent is indeed facing such challenges)

If this is the case, then the Chariot firstly is a major, the concern is significant to the querent. The querent may wish to know that this card shows two things:

The querent *may* be viewed as strong-willed/willful?, assertive, is not afraid to face challenges and may have the tendency to come across as opinionated, agressive or insensitive, especially in disagreements. *May* because these are descriptions of the characteristics of The Charioteer and since there are many facets to the card, the querent will have to seek within themselves to explore the relevence of this energy in their character, their personality or their traits.

In which case, it would be helpful to the querent (to me at least) to be aware that our reaction either directly or indirectly influences how other people behave towards us.

The second, it may indicate the querent wishes to gain more control over the aspect of their lives that is being read; feels that things are getting out of control therefore, it may appear to others that this person is assertive, either reckless or in control of a situation... there are both light and shadow aspects to this card.

Areas that the querent may wish to explore would be asking himself/herself how this has effected his/her relationships in the past because The Charioteer is a helpful energy to have under certain circumstances as long as it is well under control but it may cause friction if the querent is unaware that his/her assertiveness may intimidate those around them.

Not meaning to sound sexist but a female with strong Charioteer influences may intimate a partner who is not quite as assertive as she is or vice versa. The possibilities are endless so it is up the the querent to identify what is relevent to him/her because it is quite redundant to list out the many thousands of ways this energy may effect others around him/her.

It does not mean, however, that this is the only facet to the querent, it just means that at the time this card was pulled, the energy resonates closely to the querent and how the querent was feeling about any given situation.. basically whatever the querent was focused on at the time.

I think John has a point in that it does takes a lot of cognitive processing to link the meanings of the card to the question asked; identify what is helpful for the querent to know and what is not; then putting the message across clearly in a manner that they are able to accept without offending them.

To a certain extent, the reader has to play the Charioteer and control the direction the reading is headed because I think people want to know everything that can help them solve a problem; sometimes they loose track of what they can be empowered to change such as personal attributes and what they cannot.

Sometimes, our concern about our physical appearance may indicate our own sense of insecurity as to whether others find us attractive, visually pleasing, etc...(Not necessarily so but its something the querent may wish to explore as well) and The Charioteer in this case may mean covering up our vulnerabilities with a stronger looking front.

I personally think an effective reading contains the combination of empathy, clear thinking, a decently strong understanding of the cards' meanings and most importantly, the reader's ability to receive the messages from the cards without personal biasness.


Ash

All that you have said that Ash all sounds well and good, but I don't think that can be related to how someone views someone as physically. I think what leelee was trying to get on, what sort of build does it appear that they have, such as are they heavyset, lightset, average, athletic, short, tall and whether their proportions seems to be well balanced. Also, it may cover whether the said person thinks that whoever is attractive, cute, sexy, ugly, and something along the lines are they "their type". In the fact that we all sort of have preferences to what colour hair the other person has, what colour eyes they have, what other body parts are like, such as someone could be a leg man, a boob man, a bum man, and so forth. The same with a female, may prefer men that are hairy, others prefer that aren't, some prefer facial hair, while others hate it, and so forth.

That is what is being referred to how someone views someone else as physically.

sacredashes said:

For internet readings, questions such as "Am I pregnant?", "Should I take the job... yes/no?", "When will I meet my soul mate?"... such questions severely limits the guidance the tarot can potentially give and it doesn't leave the querent much room to contribute to positive changes in their lives.

To a certain extent, the reader has to play the Charioteer and control the direction the reading is headed because I think people want to know everything that can help them solve a problem; sometimes they loose track of what they can be empowered to change such as personal attributes and what they cannot.

Sometimes, our concern about our physical appearance may indicate our own sense of insecurity as to whether others find us attractive, visually pleasing, etc...(Not necessarily so but its something the querent may wish to explore as well) and The Charioteer in this case may mean covering up our vulnerabilities with a stronger looking front.

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Yes, Bec, I understood the question and to be honest, I delibrately addressed aspects they can work on and change.

I wonder how helpful or accurate it is to recite back how the querent is seen by others physically when the picture pulled out shows a man riding on a chariot pulled by 2 animals, wearing an armour of some sort. The querent is manly? Wants to be a man? Is perceived as masculine? Beastmaster? But I really wouldn't know nor do I care to sound like I do by winging it.. maybe Lara Croft pulled the card...

Yet I think that the querent knows what he/she looks like better than anyone else... how much they weight, if they have spent 3 hours in the gym daily and has cuts that can kill at first glance, have long or short hair and the color, have purple or yellow eyes... all those are plain to see. In fact.. I think we know our own flaws better than anyone looking at us would.

How another person sees me physically? Unless I'm wearing the other person's eyeballs and am hot-wired to his/her brain as well.. who really knows?

Also.. sometimes, people think they prefer a certain appearance and then find themselves totally blown away by someone who looks the complete opposite once they get to know the person.. go figure...

I agree with what you are saying Ash, to a degree. But how you view yourself, however, is very rarely how others view you. Especially if you are a little self-conscious, you might think that your cellulite on your thighs are hideous, or that if you have a monobrow it stands out like a sore thumb. Things you notice about your body, more than likely the flaws, may not be noticed by another.

Like the saying goes: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

rcb30872 said:

I agree with what you are saying Ash, to a degree. But how you view yourself, however, is very rarely how others view you. Especially if you are a little self-conscious, you might think that your cellulite on your thighs are hideous, or that if you have a monobrow it stands out like a sore thumb. Things you notice about your body, more than likely the flaws, may not be noticed by another.

Like the saying goes: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

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I hear ya..

those flaws keep adding up the older I get...

Btw, how have you been, Bec?

Ash