Gonna learn Thoth if it kills me - Majors

In defence of shallow decks

The problem I have with Thoth, is that it is too complicated. The system has been worked out too well.
Basically with a standard deck: you can get going quickly and use a bit of intuition and creativity. And its quick.
Perhaps its just the Thoth readers I've met, but they need a dozen reference books bound in skin, an ephemeris,incense, and an english-ancient aramaic translator. Normally after a couple of hours of questions about which sign my moon is rising in we get bored.
I think the Thoth is probably worthy for an advanced and experienced reader, but not for a casual, or novice. No-one brings a Thoth pack to house parties.
All I am saying is I admire your learned esotericness, esotericosity, but I have a right to be shallow. I would rather be an expert in something simple etc.

Le Fanu said:

thank you gregory! It was you I wanted to hear from! Back on topic now...

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I have e-mail enabled if you wanted to hit direct or you can PM.

I will go get my greenie Thoth out now and find something I want to share.

Probably. Or get another coffee and return to Duquette. Who shall not be mentioned in an ART OF THOTH thread

Lucifers Mum said:

but I have a right to be shallow. I would rather be an expert in something simple etc.

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Of course.... but it´s like those songs which you hear and love immediately and which after six months may (may!) tire of, as opposed to those albums which you still love listening to ten, twenty years later.

Yes the Thoth is complicated. Yes, it might need additional, supplementary, textual knowledge. But pushing yourself can reap rewards (that´s why Im in this!)

Perhaps it wouldn´t be worth it if the pictures weren´t so rich and beautiful. But they are. The starting point has to be a love of the art.

Le Fanu, that's a perfect metaphor. And to take it further, you can enjoy a piece of Strauss without knowing anything about the complexity, but knowing about the complexity increases the pleasure.

Lucifers Mum said:

No-one brings a Thoth pack to house parties.

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Um, no. That's the thing with Thoth... it can go anywhere. And I do mean ANYwhere. I've taken Thoth to any place you can imagine.

That's why people harp on about it. And also why so many Thoth users are harsh about thin decks.You don't need Aramaic or lemon-scented toe-wedges to be able to read it. In fact, odds are that any "E-Z" deck you can name is based (badly) on the Golden Dawn material... so the only thing keeping you from studying it and understanding ohow it works is personal imperative... which is of course yours. People do what they must: Ananke. (Do what thou wilt...)

Lucifers Mum said:

All I am saying is I admire your learned esotericness, esotericosity, but I have a right to be shallow. I would rather be an expert in something simple etc.

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If the Thoth can do everything you ask of it, why would you pick a deck that can only be used for two types of question on alternate months that start with the letter M? As you say, you have a right to be anything you are... and so does the Thoth.

Alan Ross said:

I finally got around to seeing what Snuffin had to say about this in his book "The Thoth Companion." He says that "the benediction of three flowers in one" refers to the final He of the Tetragrammaton (Yod He Vau He), which he sees as "the Daughter attributed to the element of Earth, who is the product of the Father, Mother, and Son."

Alan

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Could that then also be 3=4 in Crowley math?

Cool concept and something to add to utilizing the card imagery.

thanks!
Nicky

Also, as a silhouette, the form of the little flower (and where it is positioned), isn´t a million miles away from a kind of stylised penis and two testicles.

Ive always felt this, before I read any of the theory

Lucifers Mum said:

The problem I have with Thoth, is that it is too complicated. The system has been worked out too well.
Basically with a standard deck: you can get going quickly and use a bit of intuition and creativity. And its quick.
Perhaps its just the Thoth readers I've met, but they need a dozen reference books bound in skin, an ephemeris,incense, and an english-ancient aramaic translator. Normally after a couple of hours of questions about which sign my moon is rising in we get bored.
I think the Thoth is probably worthy for an advanced and experienced reader, but not for a casual, or novice. No-one brings a Thoth pack to house parties.
All I am saying is I admire your learned esotericness, esotericosity, but I have a right to be shallow. I would rather be an expert in something simple etc.

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Yes. I totally understand what you are saying... and I am sure that I will still use the more easily accessible decks in reading others ...at least for a long time. However (didn't you see that coming) I know even if ultimately I don't use this deck with others, I would love to know this for ME. The knowledge I gain from these layers of esoterica which Crowley had included on his deck will add to what I offer others even if I don't take my Thoth to parties etc.

In one card already, I know I will have more to mention to a sitter, even if the deck in hand is the RWS.

Nicky

nicky said:

I am sure that I will still use the more easily accessible decks in reading others ...at least for a long time. However (didn't you see that coming) I know even if ultimately I don't use this deck with others, I would love to know this for ME.

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That's exactly how I feel. I'm quite happy reading with my Hanson-Roberts and Robin Wood decks. But the Thoth is the 800 pound gorilla I just can't ignore. Struggling with it is enriching my understanding of the entire modern esoteric tarot tradition.

Alan

Eden's Apples

gregory said:

Eve already made that mistake. No thanks.

And we are NOT TALKING ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE BOOK OF THOTH (as in book with pages) IN THIS THREAD, OK.

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Neither was I, though Crowley was opposed to issuing one without the other.
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=1736331&postcount=129

And Eve, it is said, ate of the Tree whose apples taught knowledge of good & evil (duality)
The apples I speak of are fabled to impart immortality (unity); or, to be more specific, metempsychosis.

I suppose the real question is, do you wish to learn the Sacred Wisdom of Thoth, or are you in the fortune telling business?

Yygdrasilian said:

I suppose the real question is, do you wish to learn the Sacred Wisdom of Thoth, or are you in the fortune telling business?

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In this thread - I want to look at the art of the FH cards. Nothing more, nothing less....