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Tarot de Marseille - Marteau Grimaud, informations for collectors

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Quote:
Originally Posted by coredil
Do you mean like deck 05?
Mine came without box but with a bilingual LWB.
The copyright on the LWB is:
J.M Simon 1977
Yes, mine have the same cardback and the same LWB copyright. However, the blues in my cards seem darker than in your photos and the yellows in my cards seem to be more orange-goldy / less yellow. However, the difference in colour hues might be because of the photographs' exposure setting.
Top   #51
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Deck 11


This should be the same deck Lee and tmgrl2 described
I finally got a copy of this version.

DECK 11 / (scans: GrimaudTdM11)
Copyright: © . GRIMAUD 1963
All cards have a copyright
French and english titles
Background color: white
Normal cardstock
Red box with L'AMOUREUX on both sides
REF. G 103
Cards: 64 mm x 123 mm
Deck thickness: 27 mm
LWB: French and english
Copyright on the LWB: J.- M. Simon 1977

Comments:
Other than deck 04 it has the usual blue pattern cardback instead of the black cardback with sun and flowers.
The pictures and the copyright are the same as deck 04, so the pictures have been changed in order to make place for the two titles
The deck came with 2 advertising cards.
Again, this deck is not my favorite because of the bilingual titles and the changes made on the pictures.
Also I wonder if there is an english version with the copyright scheme as in old or the newer decks: it means no copyright on the pips.
With the 1963 english copyright it seems as if most of the swords (except 1 and 9) would point down.
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Deck 12


DECK 12 / (scans: GrimaudTdM12)
Copyright: © . GRIMAUD 1963
All cards have a copyright
German and spanish titles
Background color: white
Modern cardstock that feels strongly like plastic
Yellow box with LE CHARIOT on both sides
REF. G 394 405
Cards: 63 mm x 120 mm (!?!)
Deck thickness: 27 mm
LWB: German and spanish
Copyright on the LWB: FRANCE CARTES © (without any date)
Copyright on the box: © France Cartes - France 1986

Comments:
I saw this deck in a huge bookshop in a big town in Germany.
It looks completely new and it is quite surely the actual available german/spanish version of this deck.
As I was intrigued to know how does a "new" Grimaud TdMs look like, I bought it.
But what a deception!
This is the worst Grimaud TdM I have ever seen!
Dont missunderstand me, it is a high quality deck, perfectly printed, that shuffles like a "dream", with an accurate glossy finish and so on and so on ...
But to me it does not have the feeling all other Grimaud TdM have.
It is similar to Lo Scarabeo quality (again I dont want to say Lo Scarabeo decks are bad, but they simply are not my taste)

The cards are smaller than all other decks.
The blue color is very dark too.
It has the 1963 copyright with the same placement scheme that leads to swords pointing down.
Now I realise that this 1963 copyright seems to be used only for foreign countries.
The deck comes with 2 advertising cards.

I sadly have to say it is a long way from deck 01 to deck 12.
Deck 01 feels almost handmade, this one ... is a perfect plastic product from now (2006).
But I guess, if I never had seen the older decks, I would maybe like it.
Though the pictures have been reduced and even changed, they still stay what they are.
On the box you can even read: Made in France.
And with such a plastic feeling they are probably even "waterproof"
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Every time I return to this thread I find something new and helpful. coredil, this is simply an amazing resource!(bows...I'm not worthy)

Thank you to everyone who has been contributing.

-fof
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenji
By the way, I have a copy of Marteau's book, too. It was printed in 1970, but the attached plates are CONVER 1880 cards.
Hi Kenji,
I just received a copy of Marteaus book similar to yours!
On the last page it says:

Achevé d'imprimer
sur les Presses d'Offset-Aubin
86 Poitiers
le 20 septembre 1970

The card pictures are printed on a thin paper and glued on the pages of the book the same way as in the 1949 printing (as described in deck 00a).
But the pictures are absolutely identical to the pictures of my Bicentenaire Camoin Conver!
(So, as you say these are the 1880 Conver cards)
Page 9 of the book looks also exactly as the scan on Flornoys site (right picture):
http://www.letarot.com/dossiers-chau...ver/index.html

I really wonder what kind of special edition it is!
What could be the reason in 1970 in Marteaus book to use Camoin Conver pictures instead of Marteaus pictures ?!?
A copyright owner issue?
An historical issue?

I am in a hurry now but I will post some scans later.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fools_fool
Every time I return to this thread I find something new and helpful. coredil, this is simply an amazing resource!(bows...I'm not worthy)

Thank you to everyone who has been contributing.

-fof
I am glad it is usefull for you
Top   #56
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DECK 00c


DECK 00c / (scans: GrimaudTdM00c)
From Marteaus Book "Le Tarot de Marseille"
Printed in Poitiers (France), 20 September 1970
no Copyright on the cards

Comments:
As for the pictures in Marteaus Book printing from 1949 (deck 00a) the pictures of the cards are thin card plates (with a very thin paper) that are glued on the pages of the book.
The thin card plates have also a light beige color.
But ... the pictures are not from Marteaus deck.
There are the same pictures as a copy of a deck I have which is the Bicentenaire edition of the Camoin Conver printed in 1968 directly from original wood plates.
The only differences I can notice from these pictures and my deck are slight shifts of the color areas due probably to the process of coloring that makes each copy of this bicentenaire edition unique.
Otherwise these are exactly the same lines drawing.

The copyright of the book says:
DÉPOT LÉGAL, 2me TRIMESTRE 1949 - No 29. COPYRIGHT 1949 BY
« ARTS ET MÉTIERS GRAPHIQUES, PARIS » PRINTEWD IN FRANCE

It would be interesting to know what the reason was to use these cards in this book edition instead of Marteaus pictures.

But this way, the pictures match Marteaus text sometimes much better:
For example with the quatre de deniers with indeed 3 Lys instead of tulip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coredil
DECK 00b / (scans: GrimaudTdM00c)
From Marteaus Book "Le Tarot de Marseille"
Printed in Poitiers (France), 20 September 1970
no Copyright on the cards

Comments:
As for the pictures in Marteaus Book printing from 1949 (deck 00a) the pictures of the cards are thin card plates (with a very thin paper) that are glued on the pages of the book.
The thin card plates have also a light beige color.
But ... the pictures are not from Marteaus deck.
There are the same pictures as a copy of a deck I have which is the Bicentenaire edition of the Camoin Conver printed in 1968 directly from original wood plates.
If the images are cards that have the Bicentennial deck's colour scheme, then I pity the poor reader of the book as the book's description of the cards would (as in the case of other editions of the book) presumably be based on the colour scheme of the Marteau deck.
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Deck 13


DECK 13 / (scans: GrimaudTdM13)
Copyright: B · P · GRIMAUD ·
Copyright on major Arcane (except XVI La maison dieu, XVII La lune & XVIII Le soleil),
on all honours, the pips have no copyright
English titles!
Very thick cardstock
Background color: white
Wide white box with the dancing WORLD and Gothic Ancien Tarot de Marseille title
no REF. number ob the box
Cards: 64,5 mm x 123 mm
Deck thickness: 40 mm
The booklet is light grey/green with copyright by J.-M. Simon 1969
Imprimerie Vagner
3, rue du Manège, Nancy
On the bottom of the box is written:
Manufactured for
The Almagated Playing Cards Co. Ltd.,
London & Leeds

Comments:
I was very surprised as I received this deck and saw that there was no 1963 date with the copyright!
(All other english version have a 1963 copyright mark)
The copyright scheme is also nice: no copyright on the pips and on 3 major.
(I have added a scan of THE SUN in order to show the absence of copyright)
To me, it is the nicest english titles deck
It is probably older than all other english titles decks: 03, 04, 08 and 11.

PS.
I am aware that to most of Tarot lovers these differences are unimportant as the pictures stay the same.
But I can imagine that some collectors are interested and have fun "hunting" such details and differences
Also I can assure you that most of the older decks (especially all the decks with the very thick cardstock) have a very special and nice feeling when you hold them in your hands.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coredil
DECK 00a / (scans: GrimaudTdM00a)
From Marteaus Book "Le Tarot de Marseille"
Printed in Paris in Mai 1949
Exemplaire No 000883
Copyright: · B · P · GRIMAUD · PARIS ·
Copyright on major Arcane (except XVI La maison dieu, XVII La lune & XVIII Le soleil),
on all honours, the pips have no copyright.
Hi coredil,

Let me confirm one thing about 1949 version.
Please see p1 (INTRODUCTION). Is there a footnote which is exactly the same as that of 1970 version?

"Ce Tarot est celui qui fut édité en 1761 par Nicolas Conver, maître cartier à Marseille, qui avait conservé les bois et coloris de ses lointains prédécesseurs. Ce Tarot est actuellement édité par B.P.Grimaud, qui recueillit la succesion de Conver et put ainsi continuer l'impression du Tarot traditionnel sous sa forme originale."

Thank you in advance
Top   #60


 


 


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