Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Tarot Forum

Impact of PCS on the RWS deck (split from: I don't think I could go back to Rider Wai

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Tarot Special Interest > Rider-Waite-Smith


 
PrincessPaulina  PrincessPaulina is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 04 Nov 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 505
PrincessPaulina 
Impact of PCS on the RWS deck (split from: I don't think I could go back to Rider Wai


Quote:
Originally Posted by Owl Tarot View Post



About the RWS deck, I personally think it depends on it's user, like any other Tarot deck. That being said however, and even while I do not use that deck (or any clone of it), I think that to form a holistic opinion about it, one should try to learn more about A.E. Waite. He was a member of the Golden Dawn who wrote history, for better or worse. Learning more about both him and his Order is really helpful to get where he is coming from. His success is apparent, since his deck has so many clones and is so popular that he did in the end achieve something in his life. Some may hate him for his success, but there he is.

....While others might argue that the RWS deck's success may be attributed to the actual artist who drew the cards, Pamela Colman Smith....
Top   #1
Owl Tarot's Avatar
Owl Tarot  Owl Tarot is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 14 Oct 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 242
Owl Tarot 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessPaulina View Post
....While others might argue that the RWS deck's success may be attributed to the actual artist who drew the cards, Pamela Colman Smith....
You go to a concert to hear your favourite singer. Apparently, he has a pretty good band with him/her which makes his/her songs reallly shine. That makes for a great concert in my opinion. Both factors contributed to a successful concert.
Top   #2
PrincessPaulina  PrincessPaulina is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 04 Nov 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 505
PrincessPaulina 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owl Tarot View Post
You go to a concert to hear your favourite singer. Apparently, he has a pretty good band with him/her which makes his/her songs reallly shine. That makes for a great concert in my opinion. Both factors contributed to a successful concert.

I don't mean to keep being a stickler for detail, Owl Tarot, but I see it much more as:

You go to a concert to hear your favorite Singer. The Singer happens to have a very influential Manager/Songwriter, who got her the gig and developed her entire repertoire. Still, you don't say that you went to hear "the Manager", because in the end it is STILL the singer's voice, technique, expression, passion, etc., fueling the songs, no matter how much the Manager may lurk in the wings...
Top   #3
Miss Woo  Miss Woo is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 23 May 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 1,853
Miss Woo 

I think it's kind of like The Beatles and The Smiths. The magical combination of John Lennon and Paul McCartney (and George Harrison and Ringo Starr) made The Beatles what they are today, just like Morrissey and Johnny Marr (and Andy Rourke and Mike Joyce) made The Smiths.

Although, I *am* one of those people who believe that Pamela Coleman-Smith made the Rider Waite what it is today. I believe this because her artwork* in the Rider Waite is based on astrological associations that stand the test of time, whereas AE Waite's original meanings, which apparently don't correlate with the astrological associations, do not; and they just sound out-dated now in a weird Victorian/Christian way.

Also, the Rider Waite doesn't seem real to me, I think this is because I look at it and see 'US Games, made in China etc', but the Soprafino and the Tarot de Marseille does. I think I prefer self-published, handmade decks to mass produced ones. There's nothing special about them for me.

Yes, I like the fact that the Soprafino has been handcrafted with such tender loving care over generations. There is a lot of love for me in this deck. I think it's just beautiful

*Which I think is ugly and unattractive in a daggy (Australian slang for unfashionable) Christian way.
Top   #4
Miss Woo  Miss Woo is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 23 May 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 1,853
Miss Woo 

Quote:
Originally Posted by empress_woo_woo View Post
I think I prefer self-published, handmade decks to mass produced ones. There's nothing special about them for me.
Yes, I don't think I have a problem with Rider Waite inspired decks that fit this criteria.
Top   #5
Miss Woo  Miss Woo is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 23 May 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 1,853
Miss Woo 

When I look at the Rider Waite I think of that song...

Jesus is just alright with me. Jesus is just alright, oh yeah!

*in an Eric Cartman voice*

Top   #6
Owl Tarot's Avatar
Owl Tarot  Owl Tarot is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 14 Oct 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 242
Owl Tarot 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessPaulina View Post
I don't mean to keep being a stickler for detail, Owl Tarot, but I see it much more as:

You go to a concert to hear your favorite Singer. The Singer happens to have a very influential Manager/Songwriter, who got her the gig and developed her entire repertoire. Still, you don't say that you went to hear "the Manager", because in the end it is STILL the singer's voice, technique, expression, passion, etc., fueling the songs, no matter how much the Manager may lurk in the wings...
The heart of the matter though (for me), is that you have an executor (Smith) and a human with a will to manifest some Archetypes -as he considers them to be correct- and give them images (Waite). So, you have an artistic hand and an artistic mind working together to produce a result. Take one away, and you have no result.

This is -what I consider- the essence of what I am saying. That you have two (or more) factors working together to complete a project. Smith is the hand, the factor easier to appreciate, and Waite is the will, the factor which is far more difficult to understand, if you may.
Top   #7
Richard's Avatar
Richard  Richard is offline
Le Mat
 
Join Date: 21 Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 6,587
Richard 
LRichard


In addition to Owl's comments, there is the fact that it would have been impossible for PCS to have created the deck alone. The all-important structure of the deck, which endows it with coherence and significance going far beyond the individual meanings of the illustrations themselves, was based on Waite's interpretation of material used in the preparation of candidates for the Adeptus Minor grade. PCS never reached that level of initiation, apparently because she was not interested in going that far. (Teheuti will correct that statement if it is incorrect.) Waite provided her with descriptions of the images, and she executed them.

The popularity of the deck was not due to the illustrations alone, but also the structure, which makes the deck far more than the sum of the parts, and this structure, as well as the PCS images, revolutionized Tarot design in a way which has persisted to the present day. It is often overlooked that Tarot is a different animal from oracle decks, although both types are used in divination. The greater popularity of Tarot is probably due as much to its universal applicability as anything else. It does the job, and in the case of the RWS, this was due to the combined efforts of two people (with a third, MacGregor Mathers, lurking in the etheric background).
Top   #8
Alta's Avatar
Alta  Alta is offline
Golden Silvery Dionna
 
Join Date: 06 Aug 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 27,056
Alta 
Moderator note:


Hi all,

These posts were split from a discussion of the Marseilles deck. Since the discussion somehow morphed into a discussion of the impact of Smith on the Waite deck, I thought it was better here.

Alta

Moderator, Marseilles & Other Early Decks
Top   #9
Richard's Avatar
Richard  Richard is offline
Le Mat
 
Join Date: 21 Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 6,587
Richard 

Quote:
Originally Posted by empress_woo_woo View Post
......Although, I *am* one of those people who believe that Pamela Coleman-Smith made the Rider Waite what it is today. I believe this because her artwork* in the Rider Waite is based on astrological associations that stand the test of time, whereas AE Waite's original meanings, which apparently don't correlate with the astrological associations, do not; and they just sound out-dated now in a weird Victorian/Christian way........
The illustrations in the pips are based on the 36 astrological decans described in the Picatrix and refined in Book T, a document to which PCS did not have access. Waite did have access to the book, and described the ideas behind the illustrations to PCS, who executed them masterfully.

The so-called "RWS meanings" given in The Pictorial Key to the Tarot, are a collection of "traditional meanings," not necessarily Waite's, which are not always consistent with the illustrations. I have gone into this in detail elsewhere, so I don't want to do it again. You don't have to take my word for it, but I am right nevertheless.
Top   #10




 


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Tarot Forum
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

Copyright © 1996 - 2019 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.