moderndayruth
Thank you for developing the camaraderie and support in the Thoth camp! Much appreciated!
What else?!
Thank you for developing the camaraderie and support in the Thoth camp! Much appreciated!
Aeon418
There are aspects of Crowley's character that repulse almost everyone. Yes, even me.
Then again there are probably aspects of my character that repulse some people. And the same is true of everyone else to a certain extent.What I do like about Crowley is how he never tried to hide his faults. In fact he put them on display for everyone to see, published them far and wide, and rubbed his students faces in them whenever they were in danger of putting him on a pedestal. This is miles away from the typical white washed "holier-than-thou" guru figures that many people like to project their ideals of perfection upon. But you can guarantee that there are a couple of skeletons in the closet that eventually lead to a crisis of faith when they inevitably come out.
In a way Crowley's life and character are a great training tool for people who are coming to terms with the core principles of the philosophy behind the Thoth Tarot. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." "Every man and every woman is a star." These two statemants are a call for each individual to find and express their own unique individualty. But it's not a one way street. Everyone has the right to do this, and there are no guarantees that everyone will like everything they see. History shows us that we humans have a seriously difficult time accepting difference and "otherness" (Atu XV The Devil is a graphic commentary on this), and Aleister Crowley is about as different as they come. Do I have to like everything about him? No I don't. But I can try to respect and accept that that is just the way he was. And if I can do that with someone as extreme as Crowley, I can do it with almost anyone. Even myself.
In the same vein here's a bit of Lon from, Ask Baba Lon.
Lon Milo DuQuette said:
moderndayruth
Another question is what of that is true and to which extent.
Its not only him - we discuss him here as a genius behind Thoth because this is a Tarot forum - but such discussions are far more common than one would think - you know Ludwig van Beethoven had a questionable character, many of the writers were absolute villains and so on.
I write myself, i would know.
Also, in terms of artwork itself - to me its more related to Frida, she painted the very images , no?
What i do know is that i first got in touch with Crowley's books during Balkan wars - best part of young intellectuals and artists turned to his books... and drugs. With tragic effects, i've been to one too many funerals in the result.
Before you yell - its not Crowley, its them - yes , i know.
When you start to study Jewish Kabbalah - first thing they tell you is that you might go crazy - and certainly for the first year or so of studying and practicing you do think that you will. There are changes in your psyche, you are undergoing a process - which has physical manifestations too and that oftentimes reminds a SF horror;
that's why you must have a teacher from a recognized school, that's why you must have a group of students with whom you study, absolutely no drugs/alcohol , very strict diet and so on... otherwise these energies become overbearing.
(Nevertheless, i personally witnessed one person getting really unwell - psychotic and delusional.)
I never joined an official GD order - neither had anyone of these folks i am referring too, i am sure that they also take care of their people and don't let them die like flies - but i do know that if you take a creative mind, pour into it forbidden substances (as many do), give it some ancient magical text and tell "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" - it will lead to no good.
I am fine to read it all now, but i have the Judeo-Christian principles tatood in my brain and heart and i have my intentions purified by ten years of Jewish Kabbalah practices - without that, i personally would stay away from Crowley.
As they say, your mileage may vary.
moderndayruth
Those make me sick, its one of the main reasons i stay away from anything organized in the spiritual camp.
Honestly, that's also the main reason i prefer the Jewish Bible - you see that they are human, that they are im perfect, and some of them downright real ass***.
I don't like these idealized figures, i don't like sick egos, i don't like followers who kiss their behinds due to mama/papa complexes or whatsoever.
My ex whom i hold in highest respect possible is a "student" (follower rather) of sucha famous spiritual authority... and you see the guy who's otherwise nice and intelligent - willingly blinded; he knows his teaches is a rapist, he knows he hasn't written the book that made him world-famous... and yet he closes his eyes to that all.Why? God only knows.
You know - it reminds me of Trump's wife - might seem an unfortunate comparison- but lo and behold, here is what her official site says of her
"Melania's style has been noted to be one of natural elegance. In the words of Manolo Blahnik, "She is a true beauty. She has it." With a penchant and passion for the arts, architecture, design, fashion and beauty, the aqua-eyed beauty has thrived on the cultural diversification of New York City. This passion can only be surpassed by her dedication to helping others, and her generosity has been noted. "
Imho she is an ex- middle-range model, obvious victim of plastic surgery who married a gross old man twice her age - also for obvious reasons.
Late Shri Chinmoy, Osho, Sai Baba... sorry, their "re-invention" is the same, albeit in the "spiritual field".
So, i am not saying that Crowley is worse than them - he was probably far better... definitely far more intelligent, funny and educated.
Grigori
Yeah, you missed just about everything LOL The thing with a Hermetic deck is, to paraphrase Crowley "the deck is pictorial representation of the universe". Which pretty much means there is a card for any damn thing you can think of. Check out a few pages of Liber 777 (I quite like Skinner's 'Magician's Tables' and hear good
things about Eshelman's 776 1/2 as expanded modern equivalents). You can relate angels, demons, gods, flowers, stones, cooking spices, times of day, geographical locations, animals both real and imagined, whatever. I think a copy of a book like one of these is invaluable to using the deck. For some insight into the application of that, DuQuette's Tarot of Ceremonial Magick companion book will be very useful, Cicero's Angel Magic or Zalewski's yellow brick are great.
moderndayruth
Very nice! Somehow i expected to hear something like that from you!
But i like that! The problem is that the same card stand for numerous things of which i know nothing!
I did already, thank you!
(I have the book, it is impressive!
)Ceremonial Magic i have, thank you for recommending the other two - much appreciated!
But you forgot to say something... what's in it for you personally?
You know that you are my un-official Thoth Guru (its your posts in Thoth subforum that got me so far!
) , so i'd like a nice statement for the press!Le Fanu
I have to say I find Crowley a hugely inspiring figure. There's an element of nastiness that one would not want to emulate but I think of him as a man who lived life on a grand scale and was never afraid to experiment in a way that few of us can - with our hand on our heart - say we too follow.
He wasn't caught up in the niceties and fakeness of social interaction. I am in awe of anyone who can do entirely as they want, as most of us cannot even dream of doing a fraction of what we would like. We pretend we do, but social constraints oppress us, work oppresses us, family oppresses us, friends oppress us whether we like it or not. Plus I admire his passion for art as a transforming factor in life. There's the magic &c but He was truly passionate about art and was really right in the centre of where 20th Century culture was happening, pushing those boundaries, trying things out, not listening to others, stretching himself to the limit, intellectually & physically & sexually. I can always find something unsavoury about all my heroes even though I love their writing/paintings/films/ music etc. But I'd rather just take the inspiration.
He got out there and lived intensely. I envy his ability to genuinely not care for niceties at the expense of truly living, the fiery quest to want truth. And this drama and larger than life passion is what makes me want to dive ever deeper into the deck!
Flaxen
That is why I think he was such a frightening figure for many people. I think people saw that he didn't care about what they thought and that can be hugely unsettling. Imagine how your relationships with people would change if we all did exactly as we pleased, said exactly what we wanted without taking account of those social niceties...
To truly live with that level of freedom is a scary concept for most people. As social beings we like to pay lip service to freedom but when it comes down to it, we feel more comfortable in the herd than on the outside and reviled by it.
But yes, I think he is hugely inspiring in that way but I know that I would struggle to follow that path.
gregory
One thing you have to credit him with - he absolutely believed in his own faith, and lived by it TOTALLY, even when it was far from convenient for him.
And yes - he always admitted to stuff - warts and all. That's more than can be said for many other "leaders". Some of what he said I am sure was to make others think, too. And some of what OTHERS said of him was mere sensationalism.
The fiery quest for truth is a very good way of putting it, LeFanu.
And yes - he always admitted to stuff - warts and all. That's more than can be said for many other "leaders". Some of what he said I am sure was to make others think, too. And some of what OTHERS said of him was mere sensationalism.
The fiery quest for truth is a very good way of putting it, LeFanu.
moderndayruth
Honestly, i don't know which bits of all that info are true - what is second hand and what's a lie... Like, the tales of all his wives (was it three of them?) ending in the psych wards?
His students dying around him? What of it is true and what is a myth, i don't know.
We don't like it usually, but on the other hand, the conventions have its purpose probably.
I think he had a hyperactive imagination among other qualities - for what i read by some of his contemporaries - well meaning and humorous ones (but pls don't ask me for names, it was ages ago), that was exaggerated too.
