The Seven Planets

Bernice

Rosanne!

I love that you see things 'southerly' - if you see what I mean. :)

Does this mean that NZ and Austrailia do not see themselves with the same (or similar) culture/heritage?

Just wondering..... if a coherent astro/seasonal system could be 'created' for your hemisphere. Seems so ridiculus to adhere to something that doesn't make sense. But god knows how it could then be twiddled to accord with the principals of the Thoth-stuff.

Bee :)

P.S. From a northern sun-Virgo...:)
 

Rosanne

Bernice said:
Does this mean that NZ and Austrailia do not see themselves with the same (or similar) culture/heritage?

Weeeeellllllllll.......NO! no no no- we see ourselves as brothers in arms- but historically...(to be politically crass) we come from different class, same stock.
Thems over the ditch (Aussies) the result initially was they were prisoners that England had no more prisons for and their Jailors. Which makes them more likely to be anti Royal, energetic, hard working, sun loving rogues. Kiwis came from self paid immigration from dour Scottish and English unlanded Gentry- the 7th son with no prospects in Mother England.So we are self reliant, inventive, somewhat staid but stubborn peoples (hence the Nuclear Free- get stuffed America attitude)We are different in attitude.

Just wondering..... if a coherent astro/seasonal system could be 'created' for your hemisphere. Seems so ridiculus to adhere to something that doesn't make sense. But god knows how it could then be twiddled to accord with the principals of the Thoth-stuff.

Ha! I would love to see the Thoth stuff twiddled right out the door. But that is just me. We are a Moon people down here...Time and tide and would rather have an independent system adopted than a twiddled with Zodiacal system. Look to the individual Stars I say. Anyway we have the milky way in panorama SunVirgo sister!
~Rosanne
 

Teheuti

Rosanne said:
Thems over the ditch (Aussies) the result initially was they were prisoners that England had no more prisons for and their Jailors. Which makes them more likely to be anti Royal, energetic, hard working, sun loving rogues. Kiwis came from self paid immigration from dour Scottish and English unlanded Gentry- the 7th son with no prospects in Mother England.So we are self reliant, inventive, somewhat staid but stubborn peoples (hence the Nuclear Free- get stuffed America attitude)We are different in attitude.
Love the characterizations and history! As an outsider I'd like to note that Kiwi's tend to very quietly think for themselves without walking all over everyone else. There's a reticence that hides some very surprising attitudes and abilities that only come out when you've known someone for a while. Aussies tend to be all out-there and, boy, do they know how to party!

Another difference is that of the influence of the Australian Aboriginal Peoples and the Polynesian Maoris and how the different cultures have mixed or not. My sense is that New Zealanders are more apt to respectfully take on the native myths as part of their heritage (but this could just be the people I've been around) - and thus have these elements play a large part in a Southern Hemisphere astrology.
 

Bernice

Rosanne, I love your summation re. NZ & Australia.......:grin:

But the sad thing is that I was hoping there was still something of the original culture/heritage. I bet they looked at the sky (OF COURSE THEY DID!) and their observations & world-view would have been truly Southern hemispheric (can one say "hemispheric"?).

I agree with you re. the Thoth-stuff, but this thread is in the Thoth Tarot/GD forums and so any ideas about the 7 planets & how they're viewed should be related to the GD system. Plus there are SH people who study it.

Bee :) :) :)
 

sapienza

Thanks for the interesting thoughts.

If we are relating the planets to the Golden Dawn system though, it is interesting to consider how that impacts with the southern hemisphere. To be honest, most of it works just fine. I have managed to reconcile the zodiac to the southern seasons well enough. I'm also finding that taking the emphasis off the zodiac is a great help. The big issue I had with the GD associations was with the Princesses. So what I came up with was this...

In the northern hemisphere the Princess rules a quadrant which links to a season ie. Princess of Wands rules Cancer, Leo and Virgo. Leo, being the fixed fire sign is in the centre. If we were to do the opposite down here then the Princess of Wands would rule Capricorn, Aquarius and Pisces....which contain no fire signs at all. This just didn't work for me so, rather than focusing on the seasons changing at the Equinoxes and Solstices, I chose to use the calendar dates of 1 September for Spring, 1 December for Summer, 1 March for Autumn and 1 June for Winter. This way, the Princesses rule the seasons based on the Mutable signs, rather than fixed as follows:

Spring begins during Virgo (which makes a lot of sense to me anyway) and includes Libra and Scorpio.

Summer begins during Sagittarius and includes Capricorn and Aquarius.

Autumn begins in Pisces (a time to turn inwards) and includes Aries and Taurus.

Winter Beings during Gemini and includes Cancer and Leo.

This way the elements make more sense....well, to me anyway. It's also interesting to note that here in Brisbane our seasons are quite different to the traditional four seasons. As an example it's now mid August, still officially winter, but today is supposed to be 26 Celsius and sunny and tomorrow is supposed to be 29. This has been rather a warm winter, but our winters are usually pretty short! Anyway, it sure feels like spring to me. If we wait until the equinox at the end of September the spring cleaning will be all over and we'll be at the beach :)

Anyway, just my crazy ramblings on a Sunday morning. I'd better go and start that spring cleaning.


ETA..I know this whole idea of adapting the northern hemisphere system may seem crazy to some people, and you may wonder why I don't just create my own system, or forget it altogether. I have great respect for the cultural heritage of indigenous Australians, but I think for me it's about the fact that my heritage is British and, only a few generations ago, my ancestors were living in the northern hemisphere. I know I'm not living there now, but for me personally, I feel a connection to that system and making it 'fit' my current geographic location is a big part of my identity, ie. an Australian of British heritage. Hope that makes sense. Ok, back to the cleaning :)
 

Bernice

Very apt and innovative adaptation for the princesses!

Good to hear that the planets work fine at both ends of the Earth. (Smug giggle here.... for a long time now I've kept an emphasis on the celestial bodies because they're physically real, whereas the houses/zodiac etc. are a geomantic framework - just for us humans.)

Really enjoying this thread.

Bee :)
 

Bernice

YES.... more questions. I like that Maurice Mcann was mentioned, I used to check out his website for horary. That man's a good thinker.

I wonder why those threads got buried? Further... shall we post to them now, get them up running again?

I also wonder if jmd produced his book?

Just think, we're in the 21st century and Astrology hasn't addressed the southern hemisphere! I know that astro-cartography may now be used, but it still doesn't tackle the real differences.

Bee :)
 

Scion

Swamped in a film shoot right now. No time to respond properly at the moment.

So much to discuss and answer; I promise I will as soon as I have some down time. Very excited to talk through this stuff with y'all.
 

sapienza

Scion said:
So much to discuss and answer; I promise I will as soon as I have some down time. Very excited to talk through this stuff with y'all.

I'm looking forward to your thoughts when things settle down :)

I ended up ordering Frawley's 'Real Astrology' and am looking forward to it arriving, hopefully some time next week. This thread has certainly given me some food for thought!