Another TdM Reference

_R_

Absolutely. Unfortunately, this necessary task is unlikely to take shape in a thorough, fitting manner. The sad fact is, the tarot book market is saturated, and there is no shortage of potential authors on the subject in English, hence, little reason for a publisher to invest time and money in a costly translation.

Classic works aside - Papus, Wirth, Maxwell, the Anonymous Meditations - and even then - practically none of the recent French works, i.e. of the last 30 years, say, on Tarot have been translated, with the exception of Jodorowsky. (We'll lump him in with the French for the sake of argument.)

An overview along the lines of Bill Butler's Definitive Tarot/Dictionary of Tarot would do the job, but then there's also the question of copyright: a publisher may not want to take any risks by publishing a book that makes liberal use of interpretations taken from contemporary authors whose work may still be in copyright. A blog, however, would be a better platform for such a comparative approach, within the limits of fair use.

To return briefly to the topic, in addition to pioneering the use of visual cues, one member noted earlier the following about Maxwell's work:

I also find Joseph Maxwell's book to have exceptionally positive interpretations of the divination of the cards and to be not so fixated on the predictive elements but more the psychological, transformative aspects. ...

Overall, I find this book and the work of Joseph Maxwell to be very enriching to the student of the cards and the practitioner. The numerology and imagery of the deck can be ignored or passed over for the divinatory meanings, as these meanings are very useful for all decks and readings.

This is quite important: previously, divinatory meanings were very often arbitrary, fixed judgements, leaving the consultant with little choice in the matter. Maxwell has also clearly prefigured this all-too important transformative function of the Tarot, as I think we would all agree.
 

Barleywine

An overview along the lines of Bill Butler's Definitive Tarot/Dictionary of Tarot would do the job, but then there's also the question of copyright: a publisher may not want to take any risks by publishing a book that makes liberal use of interpretations taken from contemporary authors whose work may still be in copyright. A blog, however, would be a better platform for such a comparative approach, within the limits of fair use.

Thanks for the memory jog; I also have Bill Butler's Dictionary of the Tarot in hardcover from 1975, but haven't pulled it off the shelf in a long time. Forgot about it. Will have to leave it in my "ready-reference" pile along with the BoT, the PKT, Liber T, Maxwell, Gray, Case and Sturzaker. Its main virtue seems to be the brief comparisons of the ideas of many different authors. Its glossary of terms, although short, isn't too shabby either.
 

Barleywine

I wandered back through the old threads on this subject, and found Lee's less positive review. I do agree that Maxwell's structure and correspondences are out-of-sync with what most of us think of today as "esoteric tarot," but I decided to simply ignore his innovations and just plug in my own well-honed ideas. So I don't pay any attention to Maxwell's astrological attributions for the Trumps or his elemental associations for the suits, neither of which are essential for getting value out of his observations. (To be honest, even though he reassigns Earth to Wands, his meanings seem to fall more in line with the interpretation of fiery Wands as "enterprise.") The same goes for the deep mathematical musings, although I'm starting to get more value out of his discussion of isomorphs, and his number analysis for the pips - while different from the qabalistic approach I've used for a long time - has merit as well. As a reference for getting divinational insights on the TdM pips, it's as good as most other English-language works I've seen and better than some within its particular niche.
 

Barleywine

If I remember correctly, Diana a former ATF member mentioned in 2004 that she founded the english translation of Maxwell quite terrible.
I could find this old thread:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p=366103#post366103

You can have a look at this other thread:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=57539&highlight=maxwell
Among other things there are some insights on this very particular theme.
In particular post #1 and post #24

I had a similar impression on the two previous occasions that I tried to read straight through it from the beginning. The numerical meanderings completely put me off, and back on the shelf it went. But more recently, for some unknown reason, I was poking around in the back of the book and began seeing insights that made a lot of sense. The section of the book titled "The Minor Trumps" is the only part I can truly recommend; the rest is only so-so unless I'm in the mood for his elaborate "numbers game." I do like the fact that, overall, it isn't built on the Golden Dawn model and goes its own way in an esoteric sense. The true test is whether it's helpful, and I would grade it a "B+" in that department.
 

Barleywine

I hit upon a simple way to brush up on my French while beginning to penetrate the French perspective on the TdM: I downloaded a free French-language tutorial titled (what else?) The French Tutorial put together by Herve Foucher. I discovered that I still have a pretty good grasp of the grammar (even if the verb tenses are somewhat of a headache), and all I lack is vocabulary. Between my French-English dictionary and Google Translate (it's weak, I know, but it does seem to handle phrases OK), I'm able to give it a reasonable go. I just got the French-language LWB with Kris Hadar's Le Veritable Tarot de Marseille, and I've been practicing on it, learning a few historical tidbits about what apparently went on between the King, the "taxman" and the cartiers. Something about the card-makers being forbidden to "prune" (Google Translate is weird) their "moules" (I figured that meant they weren't permitted to modify the original wood-blocks), the cards had to have the King's "mark" on them, and the profits went to the "Hopital general" in Paris. Later on, that authority renounced the endowment (which seems to have been a poor one) and the cartiers were free to do what they wanted. Still later, card "games" began to be taxed, the old "moules" had to be destroyed, and newer designs took their place. This level of detail isn't something I've found in the few English-language tarot histories I've read to date.

After I finish the LWB, I'll be ready to see if I can find a French-language edition of Maxwell to chew through.
 

3ill.yazi

Well, I've ordered a copy of Maxwell, you enabling bastards. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

_R_

Maxwell's convoluted prose is not the easiest to understand: be warned! Go for the 1984 reprint if you do decide to get it - a newer edition will hold out longer than a fragile first edition.

Also see Thierry Depaulis's excellent catalogue-book, which is available courtesy of the French national library: http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6532698n/f1.image

(PDFs can be downloaded easily enough.)
 

Barleywine

Maxwell's convoluted prose is not the easiest to understand: be warned! Go for the 1984 reprint if you do decide to get it - a newer edition will hold out longer than a fragile first edition.

Also see Thierry Depaulis's excellent catalogue-book, which is available courtesy of the French national library: http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6532698n/f1.image

(PDFs can be downloaded easily enough.)

Thanks! I was hoping someone would come up with some recommendations for additional reading. I'm finding that, simply by repetition, puzzling my way through a French tarot text is really helping me with memorization of the aspects of the language that don't follow consistent rules. Plus, the meaning sticks a lot more solidly because I basically have to build up the sentences from scratch at the moment. But it will come.
 

Barleywine

Well, I've ordered a copy of Maxwell, you enabling bastards. :)

Perhaps if I ever make it to a Mass Tarot meeting, we can compare notes on Maxwell.