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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eremita90 View Post
I laughed And yes, I can kind of see your reference to the wheel.

Thanks to both for your reply! Actually, my question was perhaps caused by too much Anaxagoras, with his idea that everything is in everything, and had to postulate another element to pull himself out of the mire
... well, he IS a pre-Socratic. Even so, IMo , we need to look at these ideas in stages.

He isnt the only one to'invent' the concept "to pull himself out of the mire" though ;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_(classical_element) and click on ; "Did you mean: Aether (classical element)?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintessence_(physics)
ETA; so annoying, wiki keeps doing this... changing the page even though the address is right ...

go to link and then click on the ' Did you mean: Quintessence (physics)? '

It is a glitch in the system where AT cant seem to high light the last bracket so it isnt included in the address
Top   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
Well, there actually is a fifth element, but it does not appear as part of the deck, and it is Spirit. That is the intangible element that animates the element and allows them to interact. There are many ways of presenting that element. One is that we have four limbs plus another "magic" one that is our most powerful creative tool. Another is how we have four fingers, all brought together by the thumb, without which we couldn't do anything.

In Tarot, you are the element of Spirit, shuffling an entire universe in your hands, mixing and animating it.
< tentatively tries a stab at it> 5 suits ; Wands, Cups, Swords, Discs ..... Trumps ?
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Stabs back:

"I am the flame that burns in every heart of man, and in the core of every star. I am Life, and the giver of Life, yet therefore is the knowledge me knowledge of death."

But seriously, the Trumps are themselves part of each element, both in and of themselves and as the conduits of energy in each of their respective worlds. The top spoke of the pentagram is quite rightly left out. Indeed, representing it visually is well nigh impossible.
Top   #33
Eremita90  Eremita90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
... well, he IS a pre-Socratic. Even so, IMo , we need to look at these ideas in stages.

He isnt the only one to'invent' the concept "to pull himself out of the mire" though ;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aether_(classical_element) and click on ; "Did you mean: Aether (classical element)?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintessence_(physics)
ETA; so annoying, wiki keeps doing this... changing the page even though the address is right ...

go to link and then click on the ' Did you mean: Quintessence (physics)? '

It is a glitch in the system where AT cant seem to high light the last bracket so it isnt included in the address
ahah, don't worry . Actually, I spent the last years studying ancient and medieval philosophy (both passion and university), yet Anaxagoras is one of those who always had me thinking like his philosophical process was "Oh fu*, how do I get out of this? Oh, there it is: Nous".

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
< tentatively tries a stab at it> 5 suits ; Wands, Cups, Swords, Discs ..... Trumps ?
But aren't Trumps elemental as well? Or are they like Emperor-Spiritual Fire; Chariot-Spiritual Water?
Top   #34
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Astrological Perspective


Hi Mister Green,

My method of dealing with the aspects of the elements is based on astrology. The elements of Fire, Air, Water, and Earth each have the qualities of Cardinal, Fixed, and Mutable. I attribute the Cardinal quality of the element to the King, the Fixed element to the Queen, and the Mutable element to the Knight. Since the Page is not a "property owner", he is not attributed a quality. This works out as follows:

FIRE
King is Aries (cardinal)
Queen is Leo (fixed)
Knight is Sagittarius (mutable)

AIR
King is Libra (cardinal)
Queen is Aquarius (fixed)
Knight is Gemini (mutable)

WATER
King is Cancer (cardinal)
Queen is Scorpio (fixed)
Knight is Pisces (mutable)

EARTH
King is Capricorn (cardinal)
Queen is Taurus (fixed)
Knight is Virgo (mutable)

As an astrologer as well as a student of the Tarot, I have occasion to relate this to real life people, and it is quite an accurate depiction of their respective personality traits. It is fascinating to watch these same traits manifest in the personality traits of the tarot characters. It is also a great help in understanding the personality of the querent. I always asks the birthday and watch for the cards that pertain to their element and qualities.

Astrology and the Papus system in "The Tarot of the Bohemians" constitute the major foundation for my intuitive understanding of the cards. Astrology provides the qualities of the suit including the characteristics of the individual court cards, and Papus' structure provides me with the knowledge of the Fool's journey through the cards....even through the Underworld of 13 through 18 and out again in the daylight of the Sun card. Quite a fascinating journey.
Top   #35
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Hi Ruby Jewel that's an interesting system does it work well in tarot readings ?. Where can I find this Papus method, is it on line. Thanks for the info.
Top   #36
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Hi MR Green, If you are interested in Papus and can bear with his verbosity, you can just google "tarot of the bohemians Papus pdf" and you will have no problem finding it.

Oh wait, here it is

http://www.labirintoermetico.com/02T..._Bohemians.pdf
Top   #37
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Tarot of Bohemians


Hi Mister Green,

Yes, it works really well. I had a reading today and the fellow was so pleased he ordered a second reading right then and there and then doubled my fee for a nice big tip. This system has really helped me to relate to the cards as an integrated whole.

You can buy the book online at Amazon. It is actually out of print, so I got it included with a big book that had a lot of other interesting stuff included by Papus. Perhaps the link given to you below will work also. It is nice, however, to have a hands-on book handy when you lay this out so if you can find the Papus book I think you would like it.

I'll check online myself and see if I can find the book. If I can I'll get back to you on it.
Top   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eremita90 View Post
ahah, don't worry . Actually, I spent the last years studying ancient and medieval philosophy (both passion and university), yet Anaxagoras is one of those who always had me thinking like his philosophical process was "Oh fu*, how do I get out of this? Oh, there it is: Nous".
Lucky duck !


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eremita90 View Post
But aren't Trumps elemental as well? Or are they like Emperor-Spiritual Fire; Chariot-Spiritual Water?
Ummm ... yeah ! ... that's it !!! ... ... <wipes mire off legs > .
Top   #39
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The Book


I just checked for the book on Amazon, and there are several out there. If you decide to undertake this, be sure to follow from the very beginning with the numerology because the whole thing falls into a natural order so logical that I can now see in my mind's eye the exact position of every card and how it fits into the overall scheme/journey. Once you get it all laid out you will see a lot of logical connections between the cards as well as the ternaries and septenaries. Just enjoy studying it for awhile. I laid this out a year ago on a twin-size red blanket that covered the plywood. It took me several days, and so I decided to just leave it. It is still there, and I still go back and study it. You will need a pretty large board at least 5 or 6 feet square. Or, you could do it on the floor, but if you are like me, you won't want to move it, so take that into consideration. There are a lot of hidden connections that you will see if you are an intuitive person, such as how the 3 septenaries represent the 3 stages of the Fools journey, and how the 4th and last ternary leads the Fool into the next lifetime.
Top   #40




 


 


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