I Le Bateleur

lol, dave, yes .
i just posted exactly the same as you did above here in the II papesse thread.
we only differ on the number of cards missing.
i know this luigi recreated 19 of them, BUT 22 were missing. who created those other 3????

edited to add that i need a kaplan encyclopedia, it's now on top of list, no decks, first this book.
what i know of this cary yale deck is only this what i posted, i know i have read it somewhere and it stuck in my head.

kaz

Free research offered - hope it helps this forum

I've learnt a huge amount from reading this forum - many thanks.

I see that Catboxer (Dave) talks about his limited resources for research. I also see that several people are talking about the need to look beyond Tarot as such and see more about the wider history of some of the symbols used in the old decks. Well, I'm sitting here in Prague ten minutes walk from the Clementinum and the Strahov libraries - both very old and containing some rarities - and of course the links between Prague and esoteric traditions goes way back:

http://www.vol.cz/MONASTERY/infoeng2.html
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/a-archive_apr02.html (discussion of Strahov and alchemical texts)


Trouble is, I don't quite know where to start. To give you a context, I know a little bit about the Golden Dawn (through specialising in Irish Lit, hence Yeats at university) and I have a fair knowledge of medieval literature (that being the other specialism at Uni) but that's about it (also have Kaplan 2 and some of the other classics). I also have a fair knowledge of art history (part of my second degree). It's a fair start but not a great one.

So basically this is an offer that if anyone on this forum wants to use me to try to do a bit of research from original texts (free gratis - I run my own small design studio and feel that all research on symbols and imagery helps my knowledge and that of the studio) then let me know and I'll do my best. I don't speak Czech but my partner is Russian so between us we could do some simple translations of Czech or Russian texts.

You'll have to kick start me though. As I say, I look at what I DON'T know and feel completely daunted!

Hope this is of use to someone. Meantime I think I'll summon up my courage and begin to find out how to get access to the Strahov collection.

Karen

Catboxer ... RE Kaplan Vol 1

Greetings CB.

Somewhere in the back of my mind I had the distinct impression I read somewhere that the Kaplan encyclopedias are all back in print. And a visit to the U.S. Games site seems to support that, as all there are listed in a search for "Kaplan."

Vol 1 is $30.
Vol 2 & 3 are $45 each.

I hope this link works:

http://www.usgamesinc.com/categoryFrame_T.cfm?Category_ID=251

I do believe that all three volumes of the Encyclopedia of Tarot are in stock at Tarot Garden (in the USA), and that a fourth is about to be published.

Baba-prague, thanks for the wonderful and opportune offer. Quite frankly, I don't really know what to ask - I for one am always on the lookout for illustrations, icons and depictions which have important similarities to Major arcana depictions (some of my attachments in this Forum include some of these).

With regards to texts, it would be really useful to get an actual translation of the work of Prof. Mebes. I know it has been claimed to have been part of Mouni Sadhu's book, but I also know that Mouni Sadhu only used that work as a springboard from which his (and the people who worked with him) material arose (at least three people who wroked with Sadhu and of which I am aware could speak and read Russian).

If, in any manuscripts, any Marseilles-type depictions are found, especially antedating the 17th century, please post or reference these!

Looking forward to new interesting threads and insights!

Well, already we have quite a few photographs of murals/sculptures/paintings that correspond (at least broadly) with some of the major arcana. When we first began photographing for our deck we were quite struck with how often we found images that were very reminiscent of these.
Actually also very similar to images and symbols of traditional alchemy too - such as the "Black Sun" which appears quite often in Prague.
Some of these correspondences with the major arcana are fairly obvious and common - for example statues of a male figure (Daniel? Joseph?) holding open the mouth of a lion - others are much more distinctive.

I can't post anything here until I have a subscription - which I can't do until I am back in the UK and can use (hopefully) my Paypal account. Meantime I can email some images to someone on this forum for them to post, if that is useful. I'll start to gather the interesting images together anyway, even if it's a while before I can post them.

Now - Mebes. I have searched on the web and have found a little. Doing a translation from Russian is no problem. Alex and I between us can probably do a fairly accurate translation. However, I don't know where to find original texts. I can try here, but if anyone has any access to texts in the original Russian, please pass them on. The whole Russian esoteric tradition is of course very rich. I wish I knew more.

I desperately want to get access to some of the manuscripts here. There is a famous text on herbs written entirely in a language which no-one has ever deciphered, and which is thought to contain many hidden meanings. Certainly some of
the illustrations seem quite strange.
I doubt that anyone will let me look at anything quite so precious, but I'm hoping that the less valuable books are available for study. I'll keep posting anything I find, and meantime, if there are other requests for specifics (like the Mebes translations) then they are welcome. As I say, it gives me some much appreciated pointers as to where to start.

Kren


Hope this isn't too far off the Magician!

Sorry - it's Karen not "Kren" (typing too fast!)

fingers and table legs

Ummm, sorry to intrude so rudely here, but err... were you guys actually considering this thread to be a discussion of the Magician? Bateleur? If so, should I open a thread called "Methodologies and Resources in Tarologie" if I would like to get hung up on the Bateleurs Buttons?

NO? well then, in that case, might you indulge my obnoxious habit of asking questions here?

Ahh, that is kind...So now, where were we, where has that missing table leg gotten to...Have you had a good look at the Baleleur's hand?

No? Well then, have a look at these close-ups of various bateleur hands, and then please tell me how many fingers does the chappie have, and why?
http://letarot.com/pages/26mains.htm

Indeed, the Bateleur's (left) hand - his wand holding hand, is depicted ambiguously with what seems an additional finger - though not quite.

As to the 'missing' leg, I must admit I had not considered the leg he handles in that hand to be connected (well, I guess it isn't, being so clearly disconnected!).

But what to make of his possible additional finger - is this significant? I realise that some French Tarot sites (including the LeTarot.com site linked) make of this detail an importance others dismiss. As artist, one needs to carefully consider the detail one will include or exclude - but also, very importantly, as researcher into Tarot, one needs to also be an artist of the detail, and determine which are essential and which 'accidental'... so let us again consider this hand of his!

As a leger-de-main (ie, prestidigitator or 'stage magician'), his fingers are certainly given the appearance of movement through the depiction on the Conver: his 'sixth' finger looks more like depicted movement - subtle yet highly agile and masterly.

With regards to the 'missing' table leg, however, I still stand by my previous comments - if anything, to reflect that the whole world (table/rectangle) is supported by a trinity would have certainly have been deeply meaningful to earlier viewers of this image...

Thankyou for bringing up this earliest thread which began what has only much later become this Forum - and I note that codes used prior to the usage of this BulletinBoard software are in use in some of the early post, showing how, for example, the tools one uses are often specific to the task at hand, as the Bateleur well knows!

Hi Firemaiden,

I have to say, his hand made me look twice. I attributed it to it being the palm of his hand being seen through the space between his fingers. You know, there is this guy at work that always walks around twirling a pencil between his fingers. He does it like it is nothing, but it is really difficult. It looks to me like the Magician is preforming this feat here.

The third leg mystery. My thoughts on this were it makes Le Bateleur's situation rather precarious. He must be very carfull when preforming his tricks. One clumsy move and the whole table could fall over and his tools would end up scattered. It seems that the table is delicately balanced. In life, if we are not carefull, one wrong move can often destroy all we have worked hard for. That is why concentration and addeptness are so important.

I wish I understood French, that site you posted looked very interesting.

Mimers

Re: the possible extra pinkie.....

I seem to remember that Anne Boleyn had an extra little finger - regarded by some to be a mark of the devil, by others as a fortuitous sign.