Study Group Post 1- Houses (general information)

Minderwiz

Yes, Bee the traditional view is that the father is fourth house. Hone wrote at a time when the continuity of Astrology was fractured and probably went for the mother on the Cancer = Fourth basis.

There was quite a period when there was a debate over the issue but Liz Greene has led many psychological Astrologers back to the view that the fourth is the house of the father (IF it has to be given to one member of the family).

If you go to Astro.com, (not a traditional Astrology site by any means) and look at the 'Brief Introduction to Astrology' you will find that they too take the fourth as the house of the father.

My point really here is that people studying Astrology should be aware that cultural influences play a great role in the way it is organised (and indeed one could say the same for Tarot). It's not a matter of saying the fourth is the house of the father, by definition. It's a cultural thing. Also I can see instances, where I might reverse the normal assignation because of the specific situation or person under consideration.
 

Bernice

Minderwiz: Sociologists would point to a distinction between 'patriarchal' societies or familes and 'matriarchal' societies or families.
I agree this must be the crux of it. Different periods of time with different social set-ups influence how the Houses have been designated.

Unfortunately there arose an idea, which has developed, of associatiing a House with a Zodiac Sign. Originally this was not so. They were (and are) quite seperate factors in a chart.

Oops, I think this has already been pointed out........

Bee :)
 

214red

yes i made the mistake in my original post, i will update the signs to planets when i consilidate the info
 

jfiallo0982

I think the tenth house is the mother one.
I say it because of my own chart.
mine has the moon in it with a very bad aspect with saturn, and when I had mine proffesionaly done, it said it was tipical of issues or problems or separation from the mom, wich was all true.
Also I have north node and chiron in cancer in the fourth house, chiron is call the great healer, wich, in my case was my father rescuing me from all the mother problems.

Just my take, I could be wrong.
 

214red

jfiallo0982 said:
I think the tenth house is the mother one.
I say it because of my own chart.
mine has the moon in it with a very bad aspect with saturn, and when I had mine proffesionaly done, it said it was tipical of issues or problems or separation from the mom, wich was all true.
Also I have north node and chiron in cancer in the fourth house, chiron is call the great healer, wich, in my case was my father rescuing me from all the mother problems.

Just my take, I could be wrong.
thanks for that description, its nice when we can relate it to our charts
 

Minderwiz

jfiallo0982 said:
I think the tenth house is the mother one.
I say it because of my own chart.
mine has the moon in it with a very bad aspect with saturn, and when I had mine proffesionaly done, it said it was tipical of issues or problems or separation from the mom, wich was all true.
Also I have north node and chiron in cancer in the fourth house, chiron is call the great healer, wich, in my case was my father rescuing me from all the mother problems.

Just my take, I could be wrong.

That's very interesting - and no, I don't think you're wrong. The interesting thing is that you have the Moon in the tenth, and the Moon is also seen as a significator or symbol of the Mother (a role it can share with Venus but I think most Astrologers would go for the Moon if given a choice).

The Moon in the tenth brings double attention to the role of your mother and the bad aspect with Saturn indicates the problem. I'd interpret such a situation by saying that your mother, as a person, had real difficulties fulfilling the role of being a mother.

Again a couple of points which hopefully are helpful. First don't forget that in practice someone could have any sign on the fourth cusp. In my case it's Scorpio, giving me Mars as the ruler of the fourth and Venus as the ruler of the tenth. Now that seems, right Male planet for Dad and female planet for Mum. However it's perfectly possible to have the situation reversed or have one of the other planets there. This means that quite often we do also look at the Moon for Mother, and Saturn or the Sun for Father,

Second, the Fourth house lies 'under the Earth' - it's literally the other side of the world. If you have the Sun in the fourth (or near the foruth cusp), you were born around midnight or just before. You can't see the Sun for the Earth. Now by analogy 'under the Earth' is where roots grow. So you could see the fourth as dealing with things that are roots - like our family lineage, or things which are literally rooted to the spot, like our house or things which are buried, such as buried treasure - all of which are linked to the fourth.

So the planet ruling the sign on the fourth is one symbol of the father, but we'd also look at Sun or Saturn, if the fourth ruler doesn't quite fit. Similarly the tenth ruler is a symbol of the Mother, but we'd also look at the Moon or Venus if the tenth ruler doesn't seem the best choice.
 

214red

am liking the discussion so far, all interesting points so far!
 

jfiallo0982

Wow!! that is true minderwiz, she wasnt a very good mother, she had 2 girls and 2 boys, for some reason she is very good and motherly with the boys and she basically gave me and sister away.

this was very bad for me, I still have problems with that.

I think my birthchart was pretty bad overall, like all the planets retrograde, alot of bad aspects, the only good thing was venus in first house in taurus.

june 9/1982
at 2:15 am
in puerto plata, dominican republic. in case anybady wants to check it out.

Ooo, I have the sun in the 3 house, but close to the 4, everything you guys said makes sense.
thankyou!

Also, my daughter has the moon in libra in the 1 house square saturn, does it mean she will have issues with me??? and she has saturn in the 10 house.
 

Minderwiz

jfiallo0982 said:
Also, my daughter has the moon in libra in the 1 house square saturn, does it mean she will have issues with me??? and she has saturn in the 10 house.

Not necessarily - Astrological symbolism is not that clear cut at all. Having 7 (or 10) planets to symbolise virtually everything means that we can often see the symbolism after the event but can be a lot more opaque beforehand.

The first house is primarily the body, its condition and 'you' when you need to be identified. By extension psychological Astrologers have also included the way we are perceived by the outside world. Afflictions to planets in the first houe or the first house ruler can indicate potential health problems. If Saturn is the tenth house ruler, it MIGHT mean some potential conflict with you but it could also mean potential career/self issues.

Whether these potentials are ever realised will depend on events, her enviornment and her own free will. You know what the problems can be with a mother/daughter conflict, so I'd expect that you'd already have decided that your relationship with your daughter will not be a repetition of your own relationship with your mother. Your choice and actions can minimise the chances of any major conflict - obviously you will have the normal mother/daughter issues but I'm sure you will create a loving environment.
 

jfiallo0982

Thankyou Minderwiz, thats very encourageing and good to know.