The Book of The Law Study Group 3.34

Aeon418

Always Wondering said:
Now I think I understand how somebody could survive crossing the abyss. Their personality doesn't survive? Kind of?

It does, but only below the Abyss where it serves as an extension of the Angel. The Master is a passive vehicle for the universal Will. In a way it's a bit like the relationship you have with your right hand. You don't have to argue with it or ask it to do things because it's just a natural extension of your body.

Always Wondering said:
It does get confusing when people I read and learned form like Case and Crowley speak of their beliefs and I forget this is all a dream anyway and everything is, in a way, a lie.

I think Crowley's attitude on this subject was that reincarnation was something you could only prove to yourself. He was convinced of it, but was well aware that his personal conviction was worthless to others.

You've probably already read it, but here's the Reincarnation letter from Magick Without Tears.
http://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/mwt_47.html

Always Wondering said:
So about how many people do you reckon have accomplished this? If you have any thoughts on this.

Crossed the Abyss? My guess would be very few. Although I have met a few cooks and cranks who claimed they had.

Always Wondering said:
Yes, this was exactly my reaction to this thought. Not that I have to worry, yet, but I didn't like hearing about the end of Horus. I will have to go listen to Shoemaker's talk on LVX to NOX.

It's just a natural developmental step really. You start off aspiring to the Sun/HGA, but after union it becomes apparent that this Sun is only one Star in the body of Nuit. The shift in focus away from solar (Horus) ideas to more cosmic conceptions (Nuit/Babalon) is just a natural consequence of seeing a bigger picture.

Aeon418

Grigori said:
The two likely contenders are Boleskine, Crowley house in Scotland and intended location for the Great Work (though not the actual location).

Boleskine may not have been the actual location of Crowley's HGA invocation, but it was the place where the first fruits of that invocation began to manifest. As far as I know Crowley was staying at Boleskine when he began to receive the Holy books, LXV, VII, Stellae Rubeae, etc.

Always Wondering

Aeon418 said:
It does, but only below the Abyss where it serves as an extension of the Angel. The Master is a passive vehicle for the universal Will. In a way it's a bit like the relationship you have with your right hand. You don't have to argue with it or ask it to do things because it's just a natural extension of your body.

Thinking of the Angel as universal as well as personal is kind of new to me. I remember it was talked about in Chapter 1, but I feel like I am shifting gears.

Aeon418 said:
I think Crowley's attitude on this subject was that reincarnation was something you could only prove to yourself. He was convinced of it, but was well aware that his personal conviction was worthless to others.

You've probably already read it, but here's the Reincarnation letter from Magick Without Tears.
http://hermetic.com/crowley/magick-without-tears/mwt_47.html

Thanks. Another vague memory. I re-read it.

Aeon418 said:
Crossed the Abyss? My guess would be very few. Although I have met a few cooks and cranks who claimed they had.

I suspected this was the case. Just wanted to check it out.

Aeon418 said:
It's just a natural developmental step really. You start off aspiring to the Sun/HGA, but after union it becomes apparent that this Sun is only one Star in the body of Nuit. The shift in focus away from solar (Horus) ideas to more cosmic conceptions (Nuit/Babalon) is just a natural consequence of seeing a bigger picture.

Thanks. Funny how I got attached. I think a good re-reading of Chapter 1 will be good for me.

AW

Aeon418

Always Wondering said:
Thinking of the Angel as universal as well as personal is kind of new to me. I remember it was talked about in Chapter 1, but I feel like I am shifting gears.

As you grow your notion of the Angel grows with you.

Craxiette

Aeon418 said:
Crossed the Abyss? My guess would be very few. Although I have met a few cooks and cranks who claimed they had.
It's just a natural developmental step really. You start off aspiring to the Sun/HGA, but after union it becomes apparent that this Sun is only one Star in the body of Nuit. The shift in focus away from solar (Horus) ideas to more cosmic conceptions (Nuit/Babalon) is just a natural consequence of seeing a bigger picture.

Sorry to interrupt...I am lurking around here (learning much, thanks!) and I want to add to AW's question; How many of the dedicated Thelemites reach full blown K&C (as opposed to none, or illusions of astrral boyfriends)? Of course there is no way to know for sure, but if you make a guess? And how long does it usually take? Can someone aspire for K&C for decades and decades and not get anywhere? Does that happen a lot? I know this journey is unique for each individual, but I'm still curious to know 'the stats'...

Aeon418

Lust of result!

Craxiette said:
How many of the dedicated Thelemites reach full blown K&C (as opposed to none, or illusions of astrral boyfriends)? Of course there is no way to know for sure, but if you make a guess?

It's impossible to even attempt a guess.

Craxiette said:
And how long does it usually take?

You want an average time for something that is completely unique to each individual?

From his first Golden Dawn initiation to the attainment of K&C, Crowley took 8 years. I believe James Eshelman claimed it took him 13 years.

Craxiette said:
Can someone aspire for K&C for decades and decades and not get anywhere?

Anything is possible. Someone might aspire their whole life and still not attain to K&C. But does that mean their struggle was in vain? Was their effort wasted? This is where the reincarnation angle comes in. Tradition has it that all effort on the path is cumulative from life to life. In one life you might get so far. In the next life you recapitulate your previous progress, but at an increased rate because you've already trodden that ground before. And so it continues, step by step until in one life you're ready to fly through the whole thing in something like 8 years or less. Like Eliphas Levi once said, the magician must work as if they were omnipotent and had eternity at their disposal.

Then again it might all be a complete crock of sh*t and you only get one one shot at it. Too bad, eh? :laugh:

But I'm an optimist.

Liber LXV. 5:51. Let not the failure and the pain turn aside the worshippers. The foundations of the pyramid were hewn in the living rock ere sunset; did the king weep at dawn that the crown of the pyramid was yet unquarried in the distant land?

52. There was also an humming-bird that spake unto the horned cerastes, and prayed him for poison. And the great snake of Khem the Holy One, the royal Uræus serpent, answered him and said:

53. I sailed over the sky of Nu in the car called Millions-of-Years, and I saw not any creature upon Seb that was equal to me. The venom of my fang is the inheritance of my father, and of my father's father; and how shall I give it unto thee? Live thou and thy children as I and my fathers have lived, even unto an hundred millions of generations, and it may be that the mercy of the Mighty Ones may bestow upon thy children a drop of the poison of eld.

54. Then the humming-bird was afflicted in his spirit, and he flew unto the flowers, and it was as if naught had been spoken between them. Yet in a little while a serpent struck him that he died.

55. But an Ibis that meditated upon the bank of Nile the beautiful god listened and heard. And he laid aside his Ibis ways, and became as a serpent, saying Peradventure in an hundred millions of millions of generations of my children, they shall attain to a drop of the poison of the fang of the Exalted One.

56. And behold! ere the moon waxed thrice he became an Uræus serpent, and the poison of the fang was established in him and his seed even for ever and for ever.

Craxiette

Thanks. I suppose I'm curios to know if the organisations have noticed any trends of the process speeding up as more attain it or if on the contrary, the ordeals are getting harder. No way to know I suppose.

If reincarnation is real, it would offer little comfort, as the part of me that worries and lusts for results (the ego) is not what gets another go. It's like telling my skin cells not to worry about being shed, as "I" will live to be 80 years...

Aeon418

Craxiette said:
If reincarnation is real, it would offer little comfort, as the part of me that worries and lusts for results (the ego) is not what gets another go.

But the whole ego/personality bundle is not the real you. The Angel is the True Self. In relation to the Angel your ego is like the tip of an iceberg, and that tip is completely unaware of the vast mass of ice below the surface. No wonder it worries and lusts for results. Initiation is the gradual process whereby the tip gains knowledge of the rest of the iceberg.

Craxiette

Yes, exactly...which means that as long as the ego knows of nothing else, reicarnation implies the same as 'you only get one shot and that's it'. My point was just that I see many people (not you) attracted to the idea of reincarnation as a way for the ego to be immortal, which from my understanding is a) not what any school of mysticism/philosophy teaches, and b) utterly unscientific -no excuse for it with the knowledge available today.

Aeon418

Craxiette said:
My point was just that I see many people (not you) attracted to the idea of reincarnation as a way for the ego to be immortal, which from my understanding is a) not what any school of mysticism/philosophy teaches, and b) utterly unscientific -no excuse for it with the knowledge available today.

Only the "popular" but muddle-headed New Age (not to be confused with the New Aeon

) could mash together a skewed version of reincarnation with Christian notions of heaven.

Now you have reincarnating personalities that can also send cryptic messages from the "other side" through er..... mediums. All for a modest fee of course.