ShekinahMoon
Lillie said:
It was a profound movie. One of the most occult symbolism movies I've ever seen.
Aleister Crowley (Thoth deck)
It was a profound movie. One of the most occult symbolism movies I've ever seen.
Lillie
I didn't really rate it myself.
OK, Jonny Depp is pretty, but the rest of the film just seemed so... Probably just me.
There was a set of 9 prints (the devils pictures) on ebay. Some promotional thing for the film.
I would have liked a better look at the pictures. That's one of my gripes. I never got a good enough look at the pictures.
The end, where the girl was the devil, just seemed so obvious. Like I hadn't guessed?
Oh well.
OK, Jonny Depp is pretty, but the rest of the film just seemed so... Probably just me.
There was a set of 9 prints (the devils pictures) on ebay. Some promotional thing for the film.
I would have liked a better look at the pictures. That's one of my gripes. I never got a good enough look at the pictures.
The end, where the girl was the devil, just seemed so obvious. Like I hadn't guessed?
Oh well.
Scion
I just gotta sound off here, because I think the NInth Gate is one of the most singlemindedly botched adaptations ever committed to celluloid. A book that was ferociously cinematic reduced to pay-per-view fodder to showcase Polanski's latest child bride. Depp is excellent as always, but even he seemed to have signed up for the novel, and gotten Polanskied.
For anyone who doesn't know, The Ninth Gate is an adaptation of a terrific, if self-consciously pulpy, novel called The Club Dumas by Arturo Perez-Reverte. In my opinion, the movie, while assembling all of the appropriate pieces (castwise, etc), made the moronic choice to lop off the fundamental ideas of the book and focus on the "spooky" atmospheric elements in a way that actually doesn't hold up under serious dramaturgical scrutiny. It was an opportunity needlessly missed because they attached Polanski, which doomed the movie to self-conscious supernatural eyerolling hokum.
There are some perfectly fine images in the film, and a vaguely Tarotic sensibility to the images at the core of the story upon which they chose to focus, but an important thing to note is that the film adaptation (of that one thread of the novel) was literal to the point of retardation, especially considering that the novel is ultimately about the ineffable nature of forbidden knowledge. And more importantly, the novel is about the relationship between readers and racy books of varying stripes: hence Dumas in the title. A very strong correlation is made between pulpy adventure novels and forbidden grimoires: both open one up to worlds unimagined. But the movie was a dopey hodgepodge that literalized all of the novels ideas about forbidden knowledge and the dangers of obsession.
That said, I HIGHLY recommend the novel to anyone who likes a juicy literary mystery with occult overtones, but doesn't feel like hauling Foucalt's Pendulum to the beach.
Apologies for my zeal, but I loved this book and I LOATHED this movie to the point of censure.
Scion
P.S. For anyone who wants copies of the Tarot-ish plates rom the film ... they are copied directly and without alteration from Perez-Reverte's text. Just buy the book.
For anyone who doesn't know, The Ninth Gate is an adaptation of a terrific, if self-consciously pulpy, novel called The Club Dumas by Arturo Perez-Reverte. In my opinion, the movie, while assembling all of the appropriate pieces (castwise, etc), made the moronic choice to lop off the fundamental ideas of the book and focus on the "spooky" atmospheric elements in a way that actually doesn't hold up under serious dramaturgical scrutiny. It was an opportunity needlessly missed because they attached Polanski, which doomed the movie to self-conscious supernatural eyerolling hokum.
There are some perfectly fine images in the film, and a vaguely Tarotic sensibility to the images at the core of the story upon which they chose to focus, but an important thing to note is that the film adaptation (of that one thread of the novel) was literal to the point of retardation, especially considering that the novel is ultimately about the ineffable nature of forbidden knowledge. And more importantly, the novel is about the relationship between readers and racy books of varying stripes: hence Dumas in the title. A very strong correlation is made between pulpy adventure novels and forbidden grimoires: both open one up to worlds unimagined. But the movie was a dopey hodgepodge that literalized all of the novels ideas about forbidden knowledge and the dangers of obsession.
That said, I HIGHLY recommend the novel to anyone who likes a juicy literary mystery with occult overtones, but doesn't feel like hauling Foucalt's Pendulum to the beach.
Apologies for my zeal, but I loved this book and I LOATHED this movie to the point of censure.
Scion
P.S. For anyone who wants copies of the Tarot-ish plates rom the film ... they are copied directly and without alteration from Perez-Reverte's text. Just buy the book.
Kissa
i loved the book too, i read it a long time ago and you made me curious agin about it. it might be a fantastic experience to re-read it now that i feel i've grown up spiritually and humanly. but then again, i might be wrong, about my growing that is...
thanks Scion! never saw the movie though. reason: switch Johnny Depp to Viggo Mortensen and you'll have me sleeping in front of the movie theater the night beofre it opens
LOL who said i was obsessed??????
kissa
thanks Scion! never saw the movie though. reason: switch Johnny Depp to Viggo Mortensen and you'll have me sleeping in front of the movie theater the night beofre it opens
LOL who said i was obsessed?????? kissa
Aeon418
Hee hee. Is he the horny Devil or is he lustful Pan. Either way we wouldn't all be here without him.Scion said:Lust in Atu 15: The Devil
Take a look at what the goat is standing upon, and at what the goat stands before; it's pretty literal.
The corresponding female card in the deck is just as necessary to complete the equation, Sex & ......
ShekinahMoon
Well my view about books to movies is that movies are not books. Movies are the cliff notes versions to books and will never be as intricate or as detailed as a book. Who would sit through a four or five hour movie these days? And since most people who go to movies have not read the novel it was based upon ...unless you are a Harry Potter fan then you read each novel three times before seeing the movie 
...then the movie gives you an idea to the book.
Movies are about giving you the visual while books are about allowing you to create your own visual. And most movies can not live up to the visuals we created in our minds. That's why book readers go to these movies and are like "noooooo that is NOT how that scene was suppose to look like...they BOTCHED it up". Funny thing if the reader was the producer and made that scene look like it was "suppose to" another reader would be saying ........."nooooooooooo he botched up that scene".
The 9th Gate I got a feeling was not suppose to be the movie version of the book but an adaptation. Which simply means the book was the inspiration not the script.
...then the movie gives you an idea to the book. Movies are about giving you the visual while books are about allowing you to create your own visual. And most movies can not live up to the visuals we created in our minds. That's why book readers go to these movies and are like "noooooo that is NOT how that scene was suppose to look like...they BOTCHED it up". Funny thing if the reader was the producer and made that scene look like it was "suppose to" another reader would be saying ........."nooooooooooo he botched up that scene".
The 9th Gate I got a feeling was not suppose to be the movie version of the book but an adaptation. Which simply means the book was the inspiration not the script.
thinbuddha
ShekinahMoon said:
This isn't strictly true. Different art forms demand different approach's. Trying to make a film version of a book (or a book version of a film) is nearly impossible to capture the magic of the source material exactly. But I could name half a dozen films off the top of my head that are just as good as their book sources (Lord of the Rings is a recent example)- they just aren't exact copies of their sources. And why would you want that anyway?
-tb
Lillie
Well, I didn't even know the film was from a book.
I'll have too look out for it. I'd like to read it.
On the whole I hate films of books I like.
Harry Potter being a case in point.
The only film I saw was a travesty. (It was on the TV last week, and I was made to watch it) I didn't even have the enthusiasm to heckle it.
But, with the ninth gate I'll have to read the book before I can say how they compare. (to me)
Usually I don't mind Polanski.
I'll have too look out for it. I'd like to read it.
On the whole I hate films of books I like.
Harry Potter being a case in point.
The only film I saw was a travesty. (It was on the TV last week, and I was made to watch it) I didn't even have the enthusiasm to heckle it.
But, with the ninth gate I'll have to read the book before I can say how they compare. (to me)
Usually I don't mind Polanski.
Cerulean
The cards in question...
Scion's summary:
But the movie was a dopey hodgepodge that literalized all of the novels ideas about forbidden knowledge and the dangers of obsession.
I agree...we saw the movie with others, and some of the friends and my husband were snoring softly...the man in front of us was snoring loudly, which made for unintentionally funny moments when supposedly all was about lust and forbidden fruits. Here's some pictures of the Ninth Gate cards:
http://www.wicce.com/ninthgatepix.html
http://www.themysticeye.com/pics/ninthgate.htm
And to take this back to Crowley/Harris Thoth:
http://www.writerinthewindow.com/lust.htm
I don't really think the movie memorabilia line drawing of the woman riding the dinasaur compares to the Crowley/Harris Thoth--that just might be me. We thought it was a sad sign of a slow movie that from the first 10-15 minutes it took in the theatre to go through all the credits and visual journey through nine gates...we didn't find the movie scary, wierd or whatever. Slow as trudging through mud, lingering of special effects and maybe pretty for those who like Johnny Depp.
Hopefully, if there is a REAL movie based on Crowley--links available from Lon Duquette's website--it won't be such a snore. Perhaps the Ninth Gate merits the dollar bin of old videos or a rerun...sorry if that sounds harsh.
Cerulean
Scion's summary:
But the movie was a dopey hodgepodge that literalized all of the novels ideas about forbidden knowledge and the dangers of obsession.
I agree...we saw the movie with others, and some of the friends and my husband were snoring softly...the man in front of us was snoring loudly, which made for unintentionally funny moments when supposedly all was about lust and forbidden fruits. Here's some pictures of the Ninth Gate cards:
http://www.wicce.com/ninthgatepix.html
http://www.themysticeye.com/pics/ninthgate.htm
And to take this back to Crowley/Harris Thoth:
http://www.writerinthewindow.com/lust.htm
I don't really think the movie memorabilia line drawing of the woman riding the dinasaur compares to the Crowley/Harris Thoth--that just might be me. We thought it was a sad sign of a slow movie that from the first 10-15 minutes it took in the theatre to go through all the credits and visual journey through nine gates...we didn't find the movie scary, wierd or whatever. Slow as trudging through mud, lingering of special effects and maybe pretty for those who like Johnny Depp.
Hopefully, if there is a REAL movie based on Crowley--links available from Lon Duquette's website--it won't be such a snore. Perhaps the Ninth Gate merits the dollar bin of old videos or a rerun...sorry if that sounds harsh.
Cerulean
sansa
Ok the responses iv gotten from here have kinda turned me off from wanting to be here. But i'll stay for a little longer at least....
I would like to say that just saying alister crowley was a not a satanist proves nothing. Neither does my saying he is. And besides the fact is that the general population views him as a satanist and so takes some of the things he might have said out of context. (assuming he wasent a satanist) If the general pop views him as a satanist I know that that does not make him a satanist but some of his writings and such will be taking the wrong way and used for bad not good. It seems that the majority of the time he is referenced to in a bad light. He has always by the general pop been seen in a bad light so should groups like this automatically say he was misunderstood? Again I would like to say to the person who said i'll just dismiss everything you guys say that I will not dismiss it. However I will judge it. Things need to be questioned. I am not going to believe something is true without sufficient valid proof. And sufficent logical reasoning. If I get more responses stating that im confused or that im just judging or i just don't understand I will most likley either ignore this forum all together or quite the group. This thread isent about what you think of me. I am open to debating and discussing everything and my questions are simply to get the talk started. Just because I ask a question that seems stupid or judgmental doesnt mean that the intent of it is. So yeah anyone got anything else to say??? Oh it seems like the thread has now moved to being about a movie coming out or one that has already came out about crowley? Interesting...
I would like to say that just saying alister crowley was a not a satanist proves nothing. Neither does my saying he is. And besides the fact is that the general population views him as a satanist and so takes some of the things he might have said out of context. (assuming he wasent a satanist) If the general pop views him as a satanist I know that that does not make him a satanist but some of his writings and such will be taking the wrong way and used for bad not good. It seems that the majority of the time he is referenced to in a bad light. He has always by the general pop been seen in a bad light so should groups like this automatically say he was misunderstood? Again I would like to say to the person who said i'll just dismiss everything you guys say that I will not dismiss it. However I will judge it. Things need to be questioned. I am not going to believe something is true without sufficient valid proof. And sufficent logical reasoning. If I get more responses stating that im confused or that im just judging or i just don't understand I will most likley either ignore this forum all together or quite the group. This thread isent about what you think of me. I am open to debating and discussing everything and my questions are simply to get the talk started. Just because I ask a question that seems stupid or judgmental doesnt mean that the intent of it is. So yeah anyone got anything else to say??? Oh it seems like the thread has now moved to being about a movie coming out or one that has already came out about crowley? Interesting...
