Aeon418
I'm afraid this one belongs firmly in the Angeles Arien camp. This quote should tell you all you need to know.rachelcat said:
"Spirit of Crowley's work" is right on the mark. It's invisible!
List of Thoth books
rachelcat
Thank you, gregory, Scion, and Aeon, for the STRONG reviews! They are really a big help.
Scion, I enjoyed your review of the Integral. If I think the crystals, gods, and music of the Banzhaf muddy the water, what do you think Templars and random angels would do! Ugh!
This means I don't have to splurge on any more books. I just need to get to studying.
Thanks very much!
(BTW, the Snuffin is on sale for $7.99 at discountnewagebooks.com, if anyone doesn't want to splurge!)
Scion, I enjoyed your review of the Integral. If I think the crystals, gods, and music of the Banzhaf muddy the water, what do you think Templars and random angels would do! Ugh!
This means I don't have to splurge on any more books. I just need to get to studying.
Thanks very much!
(BTW, the Snuffin is on sale for $7.99 at discountnewagebooks.com, if anyone doesn't want to splurge!)
cardlady22
say what . . .
Do you mean a list of corresponding gemstones? Just out of curiosity, which title/ISBN is that?
rachelcat said:
Do you mean a list of corresponding gemstones? Just out of curiosity, which title/ISBN is that?
rachelcat
I've got the book in my hand now. I was hoping I was remembering right and not leading you astray. Whew! I see a "Gem" category for each major in this book:
The Crowley Tarot: The Handbook to the Cards by Aleister Crowley and Lady Frieda Harris (whew, what a long title!) by Akron (dot) Hajo Banzhaf (I don't know if that's two people or Banzhaf IS Akron). ISBN 0-88079-715-0. Copyright 1995 by U.S. Games Systems, Inc.
If you are interested in tarot and stones, check out 777 by Crowley, which has a column "Precious Stones." The Complete Magician's Tables by Stephen Skinner has columns entitled "Precious and Semi-Precious Stones," Metals and Minerals," and Rocks and Minerals According to Picatrix," and "Stones of the High Priest's Breastplate." There is also the Tarot of Gemstones and Crystals published by AGMuller.
I'm sure the attributions for all of these are different. It does get frustrating, but it also gives you permission to pick and choose which you like or choose your own!
Ok, back on topic: Books about the Thoth tarot. Love 'em or hate em?
The Crowley Tarot: The Handbook to the Cards by Aleister Crowley and Lady Frieda Harris (whew, what a long title!) by Akron (dot) Hajo Banzhaf (I don't know if that's two people or Banzhaf IS Akron). ISBN 0-88079-715-0. Copyright 1995 by U.S. Games Systems, Inc.
If you are interested in tarot and stones, check out 777 by Crowley, which has a column "Precious Stones." The Complete Magician's Tables by Stephen Skinner has columns entitled "Precious and Semi-Precious Stones," Metals and Minerals," and Rocks and Minerals According to Picatrix," and "Stones of the High Priest's Breastplate." There is also the Tarot of Gemstones and Crystals published by AGMuller.
I'm sure the attributions for all of these are different. It does get frustrating, but it also gives you permission to pick and choose which you like or choose your own!
Ok, back on topic: Books about the Thoth tarot. Love 'em or hate em?
Nevada
For many years I only had The Book of Thoth, the LWB that came with my deck, and Ziegler's Tarot Mirror of the Soul. That's all I had to go on (pre-Internet).
So I can't say I discount any of them for value, though I understand all the criticisms of Ziegler's book now. It's not as bad as all that if it's all you've got, and I never got that much out of Crowley's. (If you don't have great books, eventually you just figure it out.) I don't refer to either of those much anymore unless as a last resort when I'm totally stumped.
The one additional book I have now, which I refer to the most often specifically for the Thoth is Keywords for the Crowley Tarot by Hajo Banzhaf and Brigitte Theler. I like it much better than either Crowley's or Ziegler's, for authenticity combined with coherency. But then I'm not a huge GD or Crowley fan, so the authenticity may be debatable. What can I say? It works for me. I still plan to get the Duquette book one of these days.
For books that are more general, not specific to Thoth, I like Gail Fairfield's Choice Centered Tarot. (It has a new title now.)
So I can't say I discount any of them for value, though I understand all the criticisms of Ziegler's book now. It's not as bad as all that if it's all you've got, and I never got that much out of Crowley's. (If you don't have great books, eventually you just figure it out.) I don't refer to either of those much anymore unless as a last resort when I'm totally stumped.
The one additional book I have now, which I refer to the most often specifically for the Thoth is Keywords for the Crowley Tarot by Hajo Banzhaf and Brigitte Theler. I like it much better than either Crowley's or Ziegler's, for authenticity combined with coherency. But then I'm not a huge GD or Crowley fan, so the authenticity may be debatable. What can I say? It works for me.
I still plan to get the Duquette book one of these days.For books that are more general, not specific to Thoth, I like Gail Fairfield's Choice Centered Tarot. (It has a new title now.)
Aeon418
On top of those I would recommend Wang's, Qabalistic Tarot. And the writings of Paul Foster Case.rachelcat said:
I know that Case's BOTA deck is superficially closer to the RWS than the Thoth. But it's just window dressing. The BOTA deck, Thoth, RWS - they all have a common source. The Golden Dawn.
TarotCharioteer
Thought I'd resurrect this thread...
...since I'm a novice with my Thoth studies, and actually a novice with my in-depth tarot studies (started this year, though I've had an RWS deck for more 15 years!).
I went from only owning the standard RWS up until 2011. Then, this year I bought TWENTY-ONE new decks! Lol, yes, I've taroting myself into poverty haha! Also, I've purchased many books on tarot (and magick/qabbalah in general). The Thoth and the Haindl are my two favorite decks, if I had to choose. I wish there were more books that focused on these two decks!
I only own 3 books that deal exclusively with the Thoth deck: Crowley's The Book of Thoth, DuQuette's Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot, and Snuffin's The Thoth Companion. I read the last 2 at the same time, and actually just finished them both yesterday. Crowley's book I read the introductory material, and after reading DuQuette's and Snuffin's book, feel that I'm ready to start the section on the cards themselves.
At first I only owned Crowley's The Book of Thoth, and suffice it to say it was a difficult read! And not so much in the sense of his writing style (which is very verbose and convoluted!) nor the material itself (which is quite esoteric!) - I've always been a bookworm and have always loved studying, so I don't mind having to "work" at reading something.
To me, what makes The Book of Thoth so difficult is the lack of detailed footnotes, endnotes, and bibliography/works cited! It would be awesome if Crowley had provided some source material. But from my understanding of him, I take it that he'd have loved the fact that people would have trouble understanding/digesting his material lol
Which is why I really liked DuQuette's and Snuffin's books. DuQuette did an awesome job giving us the "background", so to speak, of the Thoth deck: the creation of it, the philosophy/theories behind it, etc. His section that deals with the cards themselves, however - in my opinion, it wasn't that great. And that's where Snuffin's book comes in: his analysis of the cards themselves was awesome! He goes into the different symbols in each card in an ordered, precise and concise manner. Snuffin's book is like the "footnotes" to The Book of Thoth - I highly recommend it. After reading both DuQuette and Snuffin, I'm finding it much easier to digest Crowley - just read the section on The Fool, and it was much more understandable now than when I first read it a couple of months ago.
I've read good things about Banzhaf's books - I think he wrote 2 of them? Or maybe more? If I had to pick only one, which should I buy?
I've read horrible things about Arrein's book - but honestly, I kind of like looking at things from different perspectives, even if they're mutually exclusive. And though I do see Tarot as mainly a way of divining possible outcomes for the future, I also do like the psychological component as well - and it seems that's what Arrien focuses on, right?
Anyways, thanks in advance for any advice!
- Vincent
...since I'm a novice with my Thoth studies, and actually a novice with my in-depth tarot studies (started this year, though I've had an RWS deck for more 15 years!).
I went from only owning the standard RWS up until 2011. Then, this year I bought TWENTY-ONE new decks! Lol, yes, I've taroting myself into poverty haha! Also, I've purchased many books on tarot (and magick/qabbalah in general). The Thoth and the Haindl are my two favorite decks, if I had to choose. I wish there were more books that focused on these two decks!
I only own 3 books that deal exclusively with the Thoth deck: Crowley's The Book of Thoth, DuQuette's Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot, and Snuffin's The Thoth Companion. I read the last 2 at the same time, and actually just finished them both yesterday. Crowley's book I read the introductory material, and after reading DuQuette's and Snuffin's book, feel that I'm ready to start the section on the cards themselves.
At first I only owned Crowley's The Book of Thoth, and suffice it to say it was a difficult read! And not so much in the sense of his writing style (which is very verbose and convoluted!) nor the material itself (which is quite esoteric!) - I've always been a bookworm and have always loved studying, so I don't mind having to "work" at reading something.
To me, what makes The Book of Thoth so difficult is the lack of detailed footnotes, endnotes, and bibliography/works cited! It would be awesome if Crowley had provided some source material. But from my understanding of him, I take it that he'd have loved the fact that people would have trouble understanding/digesting his material lol
Which is why I really liked DuQuette's and Snuffin's books. DuQuette did an awesome job giving us the "background", so to speak, of the Thoth deck: the creation of it, the philosophy/theories behind it, etc. His section that deals with the cards themselves, however - in my opinion, it wasn't that great. And that's where Snuffin's book comes in: his analysis of the cards themselves was awesome! He goes into the different symbols in each card in an ordered, precise and concise manner. Snuffin's book is like the "footnotes" to The Book of Thoth - I highly recommend it. After reading both DuQuette and Snuffin, I'm finding it much easier to digest Crowley - just read the section on The Fool, and it was much more understandable now than when I first read it a couple of months ago.
I've read good things about Banzhaf's books - I think he wrote 2 of them? Or maybe more? If I had to pick only one, which should I buy?
I've read horrible things about Arrein's book - but honestly, I kind of like looking at things from different perspectives, even if they're mutually exclusive. And though I do see Tarot as mainly a way of divining possible outcomes for the future, I also do like the psychological component as well - and it seems that's what Arrien focuses on, right?
Anyways, thanks in advance for any advice!
- Vincent
WolfyJames
Well, I'd suggest this one by Hajo Banzhaf: The Crowley Tarot: The Handbook to the Cards. It helps using the deck itself.
If you want to use dignities, I suggest this one, but be careful because the author switched the court cards around: Tarot Decoded: Understanding and Using Dignities and Correspondences by Elizabeth Hazel
If you want to dig into Qabalah in tarot, I suggest these ones:
- The Chicken Qabalah of Rabbi Lamed Ben Clifford: Dilettante's Guide to What You Do and Do Not Need to Know to Become a Qabalist by Lon Milo Duquette (to read first)
- The Qabalistic Tarot: A Textbook of Mystical Philosophy by Robert Wang
Also there are a few websites about the Thoth Tarot that could help you:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=81423
If you want to use dignities, I suggest this one, but be careful because the author switched the court cards around: Tarot Decoded: Understanding and Using Dignities and Correspondences by Elizabeth Hazel
If you want to dig into Qabalah in tarot, I suggest these ones:
- The Chicken Qabalah of Rabbi Lamed Ben Clifford: Dilettante's Guide to What You Do and Do Not Need to Know to Become a Qabalist by Lon Milo Duquette (to read first)
- The Qabalistic Tarot: A Textbook of Mystical Philosophy by Robert Wang
Also there are a few websites about the Thoth Tarot that could help you:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=81423
TarotCharioteer
Hi WolfyJames! Thanks for the reply - I'll be checking out those books you've recommended.
I already have Wang's The Qabalistic Tarot- it's awesome, it's one I'm actually currently reading. I read Pollack's Seventy-Eight Degrees of Wisdom, DuQuette's Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot, Snuffin's The Thoth Companion, Wang's The Qabalistic Tarot, and Greer's Tarot for Your Self at the same time. Yes, I do that, for better or worse: read a bunch of books at once. Always have - for whatever reason, it's always worked well for me lol
I've finished the first three, so right now, tarot-wise, I'm reading Wang's The Qabalistic Tarot, Greer's Tarot for Your Self, and now I've come back to Crowley's The Book of Thoth.
Now I'm wondering if I should read Banzhaf's book before coming back to Crowley...
I already have Wang's The Qabalistic Tarot- it's awesome, it's one I'm actually currently reading. I read Pollack's Seventy-Eight Degrees of Wisdom, DuQuette's Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot, Snuffin's The Thoth Companion, Wang's The Qabalistic Tarot, and Greer's Tarot for Your Self at the same time. Yes, I do that, for better or worse: read a bunch of books at once. Always have - for whatever reason, it's always worked well for me lol
I've finished the first three, so right now, tarot-wise, I'm reading Wang's The Qabalistic Tarot, Greer's Tarot for Your Self, and now I've come back to Crowley's The Book of Thoth.
Now I'm wondering if I should read Banzhaf's book before coming back to Crowley...
Barleywine
Ones I have:
Crowley: The Book of Thoth (falling apart from use)
Duquette: Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot (indispensable IMO)
Wang: The Qabalistic Tarot: A Textbook of Mystical Philosophy (thorough & readable)
Regardie: The Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic (Vols. 2 & 9 cover tarot)
Banzhaf and Theler: Keywords for the Crowley Tarot (just got it, no opinion yet)
Ones I'm considering:
Michael Osiris Snuffin: The Thoth Companion
Hazo Banzhaf and Akron: The Crowley Tarot
Other non-Thoth-specific books I like for their hermetic/qabalistic approach:
Knight: A Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism
Knight: The Magical Key to the Tarot
Case: The Tarot (and the BOTA course material)
Case: The Book of Tokens: Tarot Meditations
Sturzaker: Qabalistic Aphorisms
Crowley: The Book of Thoth (falling apart from use)
Duquette: Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot (indispensable IMO)
Wang: The Qabalistic Tarot: A Textbook of Mystical Philosophy (thorough & readable)
Regardie: The Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic (Vols. 2 & 9 cover tarot)
Banzhaf and Theler: Keywords for the Crowley Tarot (just got it, no opinion yet)
Ones I'm considering:
Michael Osiris Snuffin: The Thoth Companion
Hazo Banzhaf and Akron: The Crowley Tarot
Other non-Thoth-specific books I like for their hermetic/qabalistic approach:
Knight: A Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism
Knight: The Magical Key to the Tarot
Case: The Tarot (and the BOTA course material)
Case: The Book of Tokens: Tarot Meditations
Sturzaker: Qabalistic Aphorisms
