Thoth Study Group - The Lovers

Alas we lost the previous "Lovers" thread as a result of the damage caused by the recent unwelcome visitor to AT.

However to help ressurect it:

From Banzhaf's - Handbook to the Cards:

The Royal Couple - "The Lovers" are an image of that side of us seeking connection with our environment. The original unity was torn into two poles through the creation; since then, they confront each other as opposites in yin and yang, man and woman. Particularly because of their contrary natures, they attract each other, whereby they carry the possibility of reuniting these opposites within themselves.

We previously had some posts about the couple - wherein the dark man is wearing the crown of the Emperor and the fair woman is wearing the crown of the Empress. Also the images of bees and snakes on their robes also relating back to these two cards.

I have been looking at this card closely over the past week and noted the two women in the top right and left hand corners, so was curious as to what they represented - from Banzhaf:

Eve and Lilith: Love (Eros) is flanked by Eve and Lilith, symbols of light and shadow, which must be integrated by the individual through the power of love. According to tradition, Lilith was Adam's first wife, originating in the first Story of Creatino (Genesis 1.2.7). Mythology reports that Lilith refused to always lie beneath Adam during sexual intercourse. She informed the indignant Adam that she was his equal, having been created at the same time as he. When Adam proved to be lacking in understanding, she became furious and left him . . .

According to patriarchal tradition, she has been branded the dark side of the female in contrast to the lighter Eve who was created from Adam's rib in the second Story of Creation.

Well I have to say this was news to me!! Even though I am not a Christian, I have read a few books on the subject and have never come across Lilith! I was always of the understanding that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman - or so the story goes. Interesting stuff!

Does anyone have anything else on these two female figures in the corner of the card?

Or if you can remember anything that you previously posted on this card - jump in and help get the thread going again.

CreativeFire

PS. Have attached a pic of the card for ease of reference.

I have just been reading through the older study group thread on this card - link here: The Lovers and there is some great food for thought in there on this card!

Melissa' made an interesting observation in that thread about the robes of the man and woman overlapping and looking like they meld together as one material, which I really liked for this card.

CreativeFire

I have to say I don't like this card. The large hooded figure is very ominous. Traditionally marriage is between the two people, the religious presence is to witness it to the community. This is true in Judaism, Christianity, as well as in Pagan communities, civil marriages etc. So to give this much power to this hooded, secret presence really turns me off.

If indeed, the two women at the top are supposed to be Lilith and Eve, Crowley is being inconsistent in his use of imagery. In Kabbala, the original Adam was a hermaphrodite, that is, Adam was both male and female. Because Adam was lonely, God split himher into two separate beings, so they could love and desire each other.

The story of Lilith and Eve is a tradition that was not included in Tora, nor in Kabbala. But I do see them as kind of archetypes of "virgin" and "whore" - the two choices women are given in patriarchal societies. So maybe the implication is to transcend those limiting stereotypes.

This card mystefies me as well. I know for other decks it's supposed to represent a "choice" of some sort, but I dont' get the sense of that here. Someone pointed out the huge ominous figure in the background, and the whole card seems to smack of societal forces acting on these two people. In the RW version, the Lovers are just these two naked people hanging out in what seems to be the Garden of Eden; here we have what appear to be a King and Queen, flanked by royal looking animals and being blessed by some brooding omnipresence. Do these people even really want to get married?

RedMaple said:

If indeed, the two women at the top are supposed to be Lilith and Eve, Crowley is being inconsistent in his use of imagery. In Kabbala, the original Adam was a hermaphrodite, that is, Adam was both male and female. Because Adam was lonely, God split himher into two separate beings, so they could love and desire each other.

The story of Lilith and Eve is a tradition that was not included in Tora, nor in Kabbala. But I do see them as kind of archetypes of "virgin" and "whore" - the two choices women are given in patriarchal societies. So maybe the implication is to transcend those limiting stereotypes.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info on Lilith and Eve, RedMaple. I still don't really understand what they mean on this card though, however your comment on transcending the limiting stereotypes did get me thinking.

CreativeFire

TheoMo said:

This card mystefies me as well. I know for other decks it's supposed to represent a "choice" of some sort, but I dont' get the sense of that here. Someone pointed out the huge ominous figure in the background, and the whole card seems to smack of societal forces acting on these two people. In the RW version, the Lovers are just these two naked people hanging out in what seems to be the Garden of Eden; here we have what appear to be a King and Queen, flanked by royal looking animals and being blessed by some brooding omnipresence. Do these people even really want to get married?

Click to expand...

TheoMo, I must admit when I first started looking at this card that I thought that they must be under some sort of 'spell' or in trance from the hooded figure behind them - with his outstretch arms over their heads and the 'swirl of energy' look around this sleeves. This made me wonder whether it was indeed their 'free' choice to unite whether this was being ordained or controlled by a greater power??

However after looking at the Hermit card together with this one, I got the thought that the Hermit is the one searching in a way for "the meaning of life" - and the orphic egg and snake symbolising the origin of all things. I then extended this with my imagination and can see an abstract relationship here in that I sort of think that the basic 'meaning of life' or 'why are we here' for human beings gets back to reproducing, perpetuating the race and this is only achieved by the combining of male and female to produce a child - which is sort of how I see the Lovers card. I hope this makes some sense and I am not entirely rambling.

Also I just noticed that 'cupid' has a blindfold on and would not be able to see where he is shooting that arrow. The first thing I thought of was the old saying 'love is blind'

CreativeFire

I thought I would try to resurrect this thread, as I've been studying this card today, and would dearly love to hear some more opinions.

CreativeFire said:

Thanks for the info on Lilith and Eve, RedMaple. I still don't really understand what they mean on this card though, however your comment on transcending the limiting stereotypes did get me thinking.

Click to expand...

I think this is a big part of why this card is such a riddle to me. One the one hand we have the RWS-ish symbols of union between opposites etc..., and on the other also the choice between two things (in this case, Eve and Lilith) which is more similar to the TdM.

In fact I find this whole card a contradiction. From using RWS variants I have a very watery/union/feeling interpretation for the meanings, and yet now I'm looking at a card that emphasis air/division/intellect (swords of Zain, Gemini, Mercury, Eve & Lilith).

The only way I can think to reconcile this is that the nature of Gemini is opposites and communication between them, so this card is reflecting Gemini in the double meaning.

Of course that is all well and good as I sit here with piles of books open and surfing through old threads, but when this card comes up in a reading I wonder what I will do? Select one over the other? Suggest discrimination as a requirement for union? I really hope lots of people answer with how they interpret the card (please....)

(Perhaps tomorrow I will look at Art and see if that makes things any clearer)

0=1 & 7= VI

I think it helps to remember that in the Golden Dawn system
the card attributions were deliberated (knowingly) changed.

VI The Lovers was long recognized as corresponding to Taurus,
with the rulership of Venus in the second House of possessions.
Also, the Moon is exalted in Taurus, bringing aspects of fertility.

Changed to the 7th letter, Zayin, VI The Lovers became Gemini.
The third House, ruled by Mercury, relates to communications,
knowledge, siblings, and environment. Exaltation: North Node.

Puzzling why this card is so unlike itself, misses the enhancement
created by the Golden Dawn, so any strangeness is to be welcome.

I never really looked hard at this card when I first got this deck, and always assumed that the ominous figure was a pupeteer and that the couple were his marionettes. I thought those were strings attached to the couple. And I never even thought about how twisted and sad that image (the imagined marionette one) really is. Maybe 2 months ago, I realized what i had been "seeing" in the image, and then had a good look at the card. That must not say anything good about my sunconscious ideas about coupling!

Thoth Study Group -- The Lovers

This is a most interesting series of thoughts about this enigmatic artus. The hermit's hands remind me of Raphael's "School of Athens", which shows Plato pointing up to the archetypes while Aristotle's hand falls earthward toward the world of concrete matter. Here, the hands bless while creating a horizontal line neither Above nor Below, but in the dimension of Soul or Heart, between the light beyond and the dark below, between the Apex and Base of a great Triangle. So, it's all about the dynamic reconciliation of opposites through the unifying Heart. This occurs up and down, and left and right --2 wings, 2 creatures, 2 children, king and queen, hermit's hands, feminine opposites. All reconciled or needing reconciliation.--The Alchemy of Gemini.