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Arthurian Legend - The Fives

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Lyones  Lyones is offline
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Wow! I want to go there, wander around the ruins and really let my imagination go on over drive! To touch the stones and maybe "see" a glimpse from the past. If not, then just imagine one.
Yeah, me too ... you can almost sense the magic and romantisism of the place, it's exquisite and seems peaceful.

Those firey darts flying over the gorge on the card make me think of aiming for something, the castle is out of reach in every other aspect - the people in the castle were probably laughing, treating these arrows like annoying flies and saying "surely he can't be serious?" There's a bit of smoke at the far corner of the castle, but no major damage seems to have been done. It does seem like a waste of effort, but I guess Uther thought he had to try anyway, he'd travelled this far to get what he wanted - Igraine ... although he's so determined, he appears to be getting everyone else to do the work for him, firstly his army attacking the castle and then turns to Merlin to actually get him into the castle.

It makes me think of being really hungry, a charity drive, sexual attraction, the desire for an object you see in a shop window but can't really afford or being envious of someone because they have what you want. It could also be a daunting feeling, realising that you are only human, that rank is superficial when it comes to matters of the heart.
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Please don't ask me why ants pop into my mind when I see all those tiny torches in the distance, but it does. I guess it would be the single minded determination to surmount a challenge, taking on more than is physically possible but doing it anyway. So I guess it's not that off the wall, since ants act like one unit in a way, just as soldiers act as one under the will of their commander.

Merlin wasn't too happy about his part in this, if I recall, so that could be why he is keeping his distance and viewing it from above like this. That he is above conflict or competition and an observer rather than participant?

Oh, how about taking conflict and competition to new heights? LOL I'm still thinking of those pictures and the waves breaking on the cliffs below, a long way down below.

Did you notice one of the pictures looks almost exactly like the background for the 5 Cups? Maybe it is! But now that I think about it, I'll almost bet the creator took her camera and sketchbook and toured all the sites depicted in the legends of Arthur and are real places.
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Merlin wasn't too happy about his part in this, if I recall, so that could be why he is keeping his distance and viewing it from above like this. That he is above conflict or competition and an observer rather than participant?
Oh! that's who it is!!! ... I don't know why, I just couldn't figure it out, but the cape and feathers ... who else could it be? ... That throws a different light on the card for me, actually having Merlin in the picture - I'm thinking now it can be done, it can be manifest, consider the price that has to be paid though. It's not really a fair fight at all, it's doing absolutely anything to achieve the goal, whether it seems right or not, a power play. When you have that kind of impressive power behind you, you can't really lose, although as you say, Merlin was not sympathetic to the cause, but he did have the final say in how things would turn out ... and it's difficult to say who won or lost - although Uther lost the actual fight he still got what he came for ... hmmm ... we have ways and means, even if they're manipulative - Maybe it was just for effect so Uther could say "Merlin, I'll lose my standing if I walk away from this defeated ... look how hard I've tried and I'm not getting anywhere."

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Please don't ask me why ants pop into my mind when I see all those tiny torches in the distance, but it does. I guess it would be the single minded determination to surmount a challenge, taking on more than is physically possible but doing it anyway. So I guess it's not that off the wall, since ants act like one unit in a way, just as soldiers act as one under the will of their commander.
Yeah, they do actually - great analogy
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Originally Posted by WalesWoman
OH too much!
On a lighter note, it could mean a trip to Salvation Army or some second hand store, or a yard sale and all the "ravens" flocking around the table of discards and other such treasures. A heavier one would be an estate sale.

If I was a paleontologist, I might get excited thinking of discovering some fossil in a ''wasteland"...sorry, imagination going into overdrive.
ROFL!!

That is just great -- and I needed a lighter note on this card.
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Originally Posted by WalesWoman
Merlin wasn't too happy about his part in this, if I recall, so that could be why he is keeping his distance and viewing it from above like this. That he is above conflict or competition and an observer rather than participant?

Oh, how about taking conflict and competition to new heights? LOL I'm still thinking of those pictures and the waves breaking on the cliffs below, a long way down below.
I think Merlin was more upset by the timing than the actual deed. In the Mists of Avalon, he is actively working for Uther because he is hoping to unite the bloodlines of Avalon with those of Uther Pendragon. So I'm not sure if his distance is because he is disapproving, or because he is watching history unfold, and knows just how portentous the night is.

Those two arrows seem to echo the dragon comet that foretold the success of Uther's reign. It is the Star (Firedrake) card in this deck. But two arrows -- Arthur and Morgan? or is it the passions of Uther and Igraine? There is some passion that will ignite this fortress. (If I could build a fortress around my heart....Sting)

All those ants also look like sperm - - this was the night that Arthur was conceived. LOL

You are right, though, this is not a fair fight.

Within the Celtic world, being the husband of the Queen made one the King, so the fact that Igraine had a passion for Uther made his actions totally appropriate. Again, it is that interesting cusp between the old Celtic ways and the new Christian ones that makes for interesting tension in the story, and the card.

The fortress was supposed to be impregnable, but by using a different, unexpected tactic, he was able to get inside.
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Originally posted by RedMaple

All those ants also look like sperm - - this was the night that Arthur was conceived. LOL

Those two arrows seem to echo the dragon comet that foretold the success of Uther's reign
They do too look like sperm RedMaple *lol*, and with all that passion going on - very appropriate. Is it just my imagination or do the arrows also have some significance along that line, being shot in Igraine's direction?

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Originally posted by RedMaple
I think Merlin was more upset by the timing than the actual deed. In the Mists of Avalon, he is actively working for Uther because he is hoping to unite the bloodlines of Avalon with those of Uther Pendragon. So I'm not sure if his distance is because he is disapproving, or because he is watching history unfold, and knows just how portentous the night is.
Wow! yeah, that's right! ... so perhaps when he realised that Uther was not going to give up, he decided to take action to join the two bloodlines anyway, or it was pretty much inevitable and he just helped it along.
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I'm trying to work through this thought, forgive me if I ramble.

Merlin could see the dangers coming from Christianity and the demise of the old ways I think. From what's been written Uther wasn't a king in his own right, that's why there was so much resistance. That's why Red Maple's comments...
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Within the Celtic world, being the husband of the Queen made one the King, so the fact that Igraine had a passion for Uther made his actions totally appropriate. Again, it is that interesting cusp between the old Celtic ways and the new Christian ones that makes for interesting tension in the story, and the card.
...make this union between them so important. That sort of ties in the arrows and Firedrake she mentioned too. I think this is what you meant, Red Maple?

The birth of Arthur was critical for the preservation of the "old ways", but the times were changing...yet it seems like Arthur came from the "unknown" and was a very well kept secret...for his own protection or perhaps because of the circumstances around his conception...in the Church's eyes he would have been illegitamate and ineligable to inherit the crown.

That certainly sets up the conflicts and competition that Arthur had to face once he reached an age to begin his conquest and unification of the country, to become High King, Emperor.
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Originally posted by WalesWoman
Merlin could see the dangers coming from Christianity and the demise of the old ways I think. From what's been written Uther wasn't a king in his own right, that's why there was so much resistance.
As I understand it, Uther was a son of Constantine II, his brother became king at a young age but was killed and the throne taken by Vortigern (as in the Tower card) - so in his own right Uther was ellegible and the rightful king, and Merlin wanted to place him where he belonged.

I think that because of the dangers coming from Christianity, Igraine was chosen, as her bloodline is said to come directly from Joseph of Arimathea, and perhaps afforded the people of the old ways some protection through marriage?
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Who'd a thunk it! Not only is this helping me understand this deck, but it's tying up so many looses ends and filling holes (large ones) in my history.

I love this!
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MWHAHA my turn on these lovely 5's !

Well, reading through the posts and looking at the cards and stories, theres a definate theme of pride and responsibility, well, for me anyways

Starting with the 5 of Swords - I really do get the feeling of a beaten ego, you thought the prize was easy to obtain, but then you are so full of pride and perhaps slight arrogance, that you come CRASHING down to earth with a bump, and its time to face up to your ego, give it a bashing and face the consequences. I've had this card come up when I thought I had an essay or mark in the bag, to only get the opposite. Course, perhaps I thought it was easy I let my guard slip. But, as women gain the great Gawain as their protector, hopefully I protect my grades better In reading the Chretian's romances, I like Gawain more and more
Oh and I think the sun is setting, the LONG trek home, when you dont want to do it, and a night to reflect on your actions, and feel the darker side of yourself.
5 of shields - the union of the land and the king is broken, and again, its time to wake up and sort it out, realise your mistakes and try and make the best of a bad job. Perhaps you thought you were doing it for the best, which is all well a good, but you have to realise when a good ideaa just has gone wrong - it often happens when I'm being organised, I over organise and it just goes horribly wrong When will people realise the land is dying? Is it not enough that they are now with the ravens, scavaging for food amongst dead and rotting animals, animals to lame and weak to survive the wasteland?! Its not the land of Arthur in my dreams, where everything is lush and a live.
5 of Spears - lol they do look like ants, or sperm. Arthur seeks to bed Igraine, but although he realises this is a HUGE task, he has the ability to reflect on himself and realise he's power is just not enough. He had a pride and ego in check to not be too upset about asking for help, and who's help is better than Merlin.

And the 5 of Cups - Lancelot's responsibility to his wife and child, to his castle and kingdom, are walked away from. After living in Camalot, I would probably pine for it, but Lancelot in the knightly way of things needed to be with Elaine, rather than off to see Guenevere again. Elaine desperately tries to earn his love, and tie him with responsibility. I have a feeling that if Elaine was on Trisha, Trisha would say to get some DAMN SELF RESPECT! There is a doormat feel to Elaine in this card, when Lancelot doesn't really live up to his responsibilities. The fact Elaine in in and Lancelot is outside, shows how markedly different they are, how Elaine can see Lancelot but just can't reach him. When have to realise when a relationship is dead and to just give it a day.

Just a few ramblings,
Sezo
x
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