Lenormand; when did it become 36 cards?

I read that Lenormand during her lifetime read with what was referred to as the Bezique or Piquet deck, i.e the French deck of 32 cards; all suits with the pips 2-6 removed.

So why do Lenormand decks have 36 cards and not 32?

At one point did someone "insert" the 4 extra cards? Or am I missing something very obvious?

Hello Le Fanu,

I aught to know the answer to this - but I don't. Can't at the moment recall why there are Lenormand decks with 32, 36 and 52 cards... sorry.

Anyone have the answer?

Bee

Yes, please! I'm very interested in this topic as well.

I was under the impression that a lot of the confusion comes from people/marketers "cashing in" on her name and reputation. I had the impression that different areas and families developed their own way of personalizing the original 52-card deck.

http://a_pollett.tripod.com/cards.htm talks about the variations according to geographical areas.

The original was a 32 card deck. Commonly used at the time for playing Bezique. She read with a deck like this which reportedly had her own annotations on the cards. ALL the Lenormand decks which came after her death from "disciples" are inventions (she put a disclaimer in the press towards the end of her life discrediting any claims from so-called "apprentices" saying she had never had any. I read this somewhere...)

Hate to have to break this news (though Im sure this is widely known!) but decks like the Mystical (which I love) and the Arte Nouveau Lenormand are complete fabrications. The Piatnik and ones with playing cards inserts less so as at least they acknowledge the playing cards, but Mme Lenormands system was a playing card one. I just wonder where those 4 extra ones come from and - indeed - which cards they are...

36 is a strange number... 32 and 52 at least are the numbers of cards in traditional packs, French and English...

Off the top of my head it's (36) the number of decans/faces, right? In fact, I've asked if people know any correlations made between the 2.

ETA: sorry if my use of "original 52-card" made it seem like I was saying Mlle. Lenormand's deck was 52. I was referring to the general deck of playing cards.

Does the decision to stop at 5 vs. 6 (for removal) have anything to do with older number theory?

I seem to recall reading through some kind of system where certain cards per suit were used to make a deck; they weren't the same, but I think the 2 black suits "matched" and the 2 red suits "matched" for the choices.

Le Fanu said:

I read that Lenormand during her lifetime read with what was referred to as the Bezique or Piquet deck, i.e the French deck of 32 cards; all suits with the pips 2-6 removed.

So why do Lenormand decks have 36 cards and not 32?

At one point did someone "insert" the 4 extra cards? Or am I missing something very obvious?

Click to expand...

You might find this intresting <<Le Fanu>> check it out, this might be what you are looking for and an accurate trail left behind.

http://trionfi.com/m/d0yyyy.php?decknr=1776

I was thinking about this again today, two years on. Still no answer to this!

Mme Lenormand is cited as using a Bézique pack to read fortunes which numbers 32 cards. The commercially available Lenormand decks contain 36. When did this happen?

Sometimes she is cited as using a "Piquet" pack (another popular game at the time) but this also uses only 32 cards.

Now you're going to have me laying out sets of the cards according to pip and then suit to see what sort of theme might tie them together.
Aces are assigned to Gentleman, Lady, Sun, Ring
Sixes are assigned to Stars, Tower, Clover, Cross

cardlady22 said:

Now you're going to have me laying out sets of the cards according to pip and then suit to see what sort of theme might tie them together.

Click to expand...

This drove me nearly crazy for almost two months.

Then I gave up.

I read somewhere that she used several different packs. Different playing card packs, and also tarot. And she read palms. I have a book with a short section on her, and they only talk about her palm-reading.

Maybe she used the 36-card pack as well as 32? But the 36 one became more popular? I like the theory about the decans. That would lend the 36-card pack more mystical legitimacy (after her death) as the Egyptian craze gathered momentum, even if the card meanings didn't align with the actual decans.

If I find the place where I read about her variety of reading methods again, I'll post a link.