A plea for sanity: beginners, DON'T use the Celtic Cross!

Apollonia

As often happens, I'm the weirdo I guess, because I started with the CC when I first began learning the Tarot 22 years ago, and I still love it to this day. It only confused me at the very beginning when I needed to keep checking and rechecking the positions, but after a couple of weeks I had them down and it wasn't a problem any more.

I love the CC for its ability to look at a topic in depth and bring different points of focus to an issue. I do use other spreads, but the CC was my first love and I think it will always be my go-to spread.
 

donnalee

I'm another person who started with it with my first deck, Hanson-Roberts, about 1984-5, and thought that the LWB (which I can no longer find for that deck although I have the crumbled little box) knew all the things I should do, and that any failings were just me being either wrong or inexperienced+wrong. I did get other books but somehow got mentally stuck in 'this is really what the Actual Real Readers use, and that means this is How It Should Be Done', and in retrospect, that contributed HUGELY to me fizzling out on tarot even though I loved the idea but hated the attempts at execution and how poorly I felt it went. I noticed in getting the Universal Waite this week that I somehow dislike the Waite book, especially about the majors and the spread and background, in tone and feel--it felt to me like Arthur Waite would be unpleasant to interact with, and yet I love the cards. Even though I read a lot of literature from earlier time periods and understand the styles etc., he still strikes me as tedious and not really knowing what he thinks he knows--sorry if that's sacrilege! My aversions to the spread could be an aversion to the way he laid it out there and how it came into the LWBs...that's my best guess, and a long answer for me to say, "Yeah, me too--the celtic cross has always been unsatisfactory to me, beginner and after being a beginner". I'm excited to see that there is a study group as mentioned above, and I feel that might be a helpful thing for me to look at while I continue with my own spreads, which I make up to suit the sitter and situation. In more retrospect, I really thought I was bad at something I wanted to be good at back in the mid-80s, and it seems very much due to the Waite material and my lack of understanding that it was okay to have it actually be about me and my insights as opposed to about him and his dictates--High Priestess versus Hierophant!
 

donnalee

Just FYI, I've set up three threads to examing the CC more closely in the Study Group section. So if you'd like to talk meaning, how to do it, what works, doesn't work, how you think some term "like 'this is above you!'" was originally intended or should be read, how to view the spread overall.

Those of you who like this spread, here's your chance to explain it--and maybe change the minds of those of us who just don't get it :)

I'll check these out--thanks. It might help me, or convince me it's still not the one for best use of my time!
 

donnalee

Warning: The following is a personal bias diatribe :)

I've long had a beef about this--the little white books that come with tarot decks all emphasize one spread: the Celtic Cross.

The problem? This is a VERY HARD spread. It has weird designations, like "This crosses you" and two "outcomes" as well as a "near future," some times a "basis" or "Above/below" (what the heck does this mean?) and ten cards (a lot for a beginner!). Very vague, very complicated, very confusing. Even the layout (why the cross in the middle then a line to the side? Do you read the two parts together or seperately?).

So, I've decided to throw out a plea for sanity here. Please, beginners ESPECIALLY, ignore that little white book! Don't start with this spread! Check out other tarot books or go to the Tarot Basics forum where you'll find 4 spreads, all of them EASIER to read than the Celtic Cross. From the basic three-card spread on up to the calender spread. Easier and, with the exception of the last, containing less cards.

I'm not saying you should never use the Celtic Cross, but I've always felt that starting with it is like being tossed, not into the deep end, but into shark infested waters :) A few people love it, but all too many end up discouraged, scared, confused and with egos torn to shreds. Start in the warm, friendly shallows with the bright tropical fish and then, as you quickly become a confident swimmer, you can venture into those deep dark waters.

Trust me, you'll find Tarot easier to read, feel more confident, and things will more readily fall into place when you finally come back to the Celtic Cross if you start with other spreads.

Getting down off the soapbox now. Thanks for listening ;)

I wish someone had been able to tell me this when I started, when there were fewer materials available and I thought that what was printed Ruled Them All. Thanks for speaking up on it!
 

BeyondtheVeil

Me too! :)

As often happens, I'm the weirdo I guess, because I started with the CC when I first began learning the Tarot 22 years ago, and I still love it to this day. It only confused me at the very beginning when I needed to keep checking and rechecking the positions, but after a couple of weeks I had them down and it wasn't a problem any more.

I love the CC for its ability to look at a topic in depth and bring different points of focus to an issue. I do use other spreads, but the CC was my first love and I think it will always be my go-to spread.


I guess I am the weirdo also as I learned with the CC Spread and loved it! It is a huge spread for a beginner but I really needed the positions and all of the cards to help me figure out what was even being discussed. :laugh:

I agree that there is no universal way of the CC. I learned these positions:

1.Significator
2. Crossing
3. Crowning {What's about to happen? What's coming}
4. Base of the matter
5. Passing Influence
6. Future Influence
7. Where I/you find yourself in ****?
8. Either People/Environment around you OR Where so and so finds themselves? {Like if you are doing a reading on a couple..this would be the place to put where the other person finds themselves.
9. Hopes or Fears OR Shared hopes or fears if reading a couple/relationship
10.Outcome- Where * is heading? I usually give a time frame.
My friend uses this position to represent two years time.

I apparently have learned it in the opposite order, so my passing influence is on the right with the Future influence being on the left.

I don't use this spread much any more, but I still find it to be very helpful when I want to go a bit deeper or get clearer clarification about a reading/situation.

To each their own though. People need to learn and do what they feel they need. While I found the CC to be very helpful to me, I don't expect everyone to love or use it. If they find something better that they like using..then that is great. It's all about finding something that helps you. {general you} :)


Brightest Blessings! :heart:
BeyondtheVeil
 

Labhraín

Mwahhahah - love that...

Hi Thirteen,

I recently gave up using the Celtic Cross for myself because it was just too difficult; the categories sound gigantic ie "THIS IS THE ROOT OF THE SITUATION" and "THESE ARE YOUR DREAMS AND FEARS" (insert mwahahaha) and with only one card to read them with! However, this seems to be the most prevalent spread on the forum-I once did a cross *just* to get help on a situation from the forum, not necessarily for my own studies. (One always needs a second opinion.)

On the other hand, it seems much easier to do for other people, but I guess this is always true. Anyway, I'm glad to hear that somebody's said this! The more I was reading, the more I realised it really was a more difficult spread and had wondered if I were the only idiot out there. Okay I'm done now. *huge smile*

PS: Thirteen, I love your tarot basics. Thx so much for spending the time on them.

I agree with Thirteen. The Celtic Cross spread can be intimidating to a beginner. I myself have been using Tarot cards for, gosh, maybe 23 years or so and I've actually not used the Celtic Cross spread in a while. I tend to use other spreads, no matter what the question is. It's not that I can't handle an advanced spread like the Celtic Cross, I just prefer other spreads. I look to my books (including those on Aeclectic) and the forums here for spreads or I may do a web search for a spread.
 

Labhraín

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works but I do LIKE the Celtic Cross. (I do use other spreads as well for specific questions).. There are a lot of versions and all sound very grand and mystical but they should be easy to use in a modern tarot reading. As for why the Cross and line this is supposed to represent the religious Cross and Staff.

Anyway for what its worth. If any of you want to perservere with it this is my version, I find it works well for me.

1. What is around YOU at the moment.
2. (under 1.) What is helping you at the moment.
3. (Down to the left) What is behind (or what prompted) the reading/question.
4. (left of 1.) the recent past influences.
5. (above 1.) what you hope will happen/what you want.
6. (right of 1.) near future influences or happenings.



Then on the staff.
7. What is worrying you.
8. Effect of others on you or you on them
9. What lesson you need to learn.
10. Outcome.

Hope that helps any of you that want to have another go at the CC spread.

I may have another go at the CC because of your post. As I mentioned in my other post, I haven't used it in a while, but maybe it deserves a second chance. I still think that it can be tough on a beginner - not impossible to do, but just tough.
 

Lazylady

Celtic Cross Confusion...

Oh, I'm glad that you don't think the Celtic spread is the be all and end all! I thought too that it had to be the one you always use, but I'm glad to see that others find it difficult and confusing, especially for newbs!

I have used the horseshoe recently and I quite like it for simplicity. I haven't done any readings for other people yet so I can't say how popular it is, but I like it now, as being fairly simple to read.