Lust and The Emperor

Crowley/Harris makes a point out of showing that the beast/lion has 4 claws. That usually refers to the emperor, but I haven't seen the connection between these two cards described/considered/debated anywhere.

Various unions of female/male figures and princibles abound, but no explicit mention of the empress/emperor.

Any thoughts or info?

TenOfSwords said:

That usually refers to the emperor

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Hi TenOfSwords-

Crowley also mentions 4 in connection with The Universe (page 117). I have not read anything either that directly links the claws with the Emperor, but there could be a connection. You said "principles abound." What are some of the principles that could theoretically link the two?

TenOfSwords said:

Crowley/Harris makes a point out of showing that the beast/lion has 4 claws. That usually refers to the emperor, but I haven't seen the connection between these two cards described/considered/debated anywhere.

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Not sure if I am reading this correctly? Is the beast/lion the one on the Lust card? Are you saying 4 claws = Emperor as he is number 4? To me, that seems stretching it and that is why you havnt seen reference to it. However I see a different connection (as they are all connected with each other) that to be a successful Emperor (or to manifest the emergies represented by that card successfully) one would have to incorporate the lessons inherent in the visual symbolism on the Lust card.

TenOfSwords said:

Various unions of female/male figures and princibles abound, but no explicit mention of the empress/emperor.

Any thoughts or info?

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Check the interplay of all lion and eagle symbols on the various cards

ravenest said:

However I see a different connection (as they are all connected with each other) that to be a successful Emperor (or to manifest the emergies represented by that card successfully) one would have to incorporate the lessons inherent in the visual symbolism on the Lust card.

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That's interesting when you consider Crowley's new qabalistic attribution of the Emperor to the 28th path. The Yetziratic text for that path reads:

The Twenty-eighth Path is the Natural Intelligence, and is so called because through it is consummated and perfected the nature of every existent being under the orb of the Sun, in perfection.

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Not a very good match for the Star, but perfect for the Emperor.

Aeon, you keep coming up with better reasons for Tz being Emperor than AC ever did!!!

[PS, I was gonna say; "yes, exactly." and try and bluff my way through, pretending that's what I meant, but you'd have probably busted me. I was refering to the intereaction on the card between Babalon and the Beast and (one of) my pet theme of comparing that to the interplay of forces of Tahuti and Ra-Hoor in Liber Resh.]

ravenest said:

Aeon, you keep coming up with better reasons for Tz being Emperor than AC ever did!!!

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Maybe. I think I just keep coming up with stuff that AC already expects you to know. Like the attribution of the 15th path. What do you think is the best fit? The Emperor or the Star?
(My colour is black to the blind, but the blue & gold are seen of the seeing. Sounds like a 777 moment to me. )

The Fifteenth Path is the Constituting Intelligence, so called because it constitutes the substance of creation in pure darkness, and men have spoken of these contemplations; it is that darkness spoken of in scripture, Job xxxviii. 9, "and thick darkness a swaddling band for it.

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ravenest said:

[PS, I was gonna say; "yes, exactly." and try and bluff my way through, pretending that's what I meant, but you'd have probably busted me. I was refering to the intereaction on the card between Babalon and the Beast and (one of) my pet theme of comparing that to the interplay of forces of Tahuti and Ra-Hoor in Liber Resh.]

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OK then, I'll take the bait. Lets hear your pet theme. I'll take a wild guess here. Is it something to do with the Sun and the Moon?

Yeah I guess its the sun and moon.
I see Tahuti in his splendour at the prow as a guiding force, an observent yet intuitive force. An adventurous, lets go this way force. (on the Nile they had -and still do in parts, a look out on the prow to help navigate through sandbanks, rocks, hippos, etc), its also an intuitive thing as well. He helps to move the boat by communicating clearly with the helmsman, Ra Hoor, powerfull force and vigourous, paddling and steering from the helm.

I see the same forces at work in the Lust card, with Babalon as Tahuti, Beast as Ra Hoor and I use it all as an analogy for the workings of my concious / unconcious, male female side ( internally and externally in relationships). And hopefully in society as well. And also in the analogy of how I rule my 'Empire'

The lesson here for me is that we have a stong dominating vigorous force and a more subtle intuitive intellegent force and although both should be in balance the inherent nature of them can tend to lead to imbalance so we should be aware of keeping them in balance.

There is much more in it all of course but I'm just connecting it to the thread.