Opsie?

Grigori

Crowley said:
The Court cards are sixteen in number, four to each suit. There is thus a subdivision of each element into its own system. The Knights represent the element of Fire, so that the Knight of Wands represents the fiery part of Fire, the Knight of Cups, the
fiery part of Water. Similarly the Princesses or Empresses represent Earth, so that the Empress of Disks (Coins, or Pantacles) represents the earthy part of Earth.
These cards have many manifestations in natural phenomena. Thus, the Knight of Wands has the attribution of Aries, and represents swift violence of onset, the lightning flash. But the airy part of Fire is sympathetic with Leo, the steady force of energy, the Sun. Lastly, in the watery part of Fire, the harmony is with Sagittarius, which shows the fading, spiritualised reflection or translucence of the image of Fire, and this suggests the Rainbow. (See table of the Triplicities of the Zodiac).

Struck this last night and thought to myself "huh?

" A typo doesn't explain it either. What was he on about here? Is this something other than the decan assigned to the court cards. Or if so, why swap the Knight and Queen (though it is explained lovely)

Aeon418

similia said:
Struck this last night and thought to myself "huh? " A typo doesn't explain it either. What was he on about here? Is this something other than the decan assigned to the court cards. Or if so, why swap the Knight and Queen (though it is explained lovely)

I don't see a problem. It's just another way of ordering the court cards according to their elemental natures and the triplicities of the zodiac. It has nothing to do with the decan system but it does add another level of interpretation.

For example all the Princes represent the Kerubic signs as is indicated by the symbolism of the cards.

Prince of Wands - Leo - Lion
Prince of Cups - Scorpio - Eagle
Prince of Swords - Aquarius - Man (or angel)
Prince of Disks - Taurus - Bull

Grigori

Yes, the Princes match up easily, but what about the other cards? The Knights have symbolism of the Mutable signs to which they are usually 2/3 attributed, but in the quote the Mutable signs are given to the Queens and the Cardinal signs are given to the Knights.

So the Queen of Wand is Sagittarius (water of fire) on one hand from her Element attributions, and also attributed to the last two decans of Aries (fire of fire), and the first decan of Taurus (air of earth) by the decans.

The Knight of Wands is Aries (Fire of Fire), and 2/3 Sagittarius (Water of Fire)and 1/3 Capricorn (?? Fire of Earth??).

The Prince of Wands is Leo (Air of Fire) and 2/3 Leo (Air of Fire) and 1/3 Virgo (I am so confused I cannot even work it out :laugh:

).

I'm just wondering why another layer of attributions with the Courts and Signs? See how confused I am ->

<-

Aeon418

similia said:
I'm just wondering why another layer of attributions with the Courts and Signs? See how confused I am -><-

In the passage you quoted Crowley is looking at the court cards from a strictly elemental point of view. His example is the unfoldment of the element of fire. But, as he tells us later on (p.149), the elemental attributions do not harmonize with the Zodiacal attributions. On p.34 - 35 he's essentially giving us one side of a two-sided argument, if you get my drift.

I'm sure I don't. :laugh:

Grigori

Thanks Aeon, have been reading and digesting from the BoT. I still don't get why the two sides to the coin, nor how to apply that. But at least I'm not the only one confused

Becomes interesting when you look at RWS clones that use Sign attributions though. A lot seem to use the elemental version, rather than the decans... hmm... *shrugs*

mooiedragon

Sorry to kind of butt in here, but I found this thread interesting and confusing...

I know there were decan assignments for the courts, and elemental ones. But is the idea that fire of fire is Aries and Water of Fire is Sagittarius a Thoth thing or an astrology thing?

And then..... what do you do with this information when they show up in a reading? How does it get interpreted?

ravenest

It might make more sense to re-interpret this with the 'Four Worlds' and see (for example) fire in its creative, formative, archetypal and material aspects, etc ?

Opsie?

Grigori

Aeon418

Grigori

Aeon418

Grigori

mooiedragon

ravenest