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any thoughts on 'pleasure'?

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xsyorra  xsyorra is offline
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xsyorra 

I might have a possible suggestion:
Outside of considering how the cards are paired, and what cards were paired with Pleasure, consider that the emotional state is always temporary. Just like water, we flow from one emotional state to the next without showing signs of hint or pause. We cannot turn our feelings off any more than we can turn off our thoughts.
Water and Air are the two unstable elements of the four. As someone already stated, fire is the counterbalance of water, thereby making it stable, though temporary.

Personally, I read using Elemental Dignities, and make good use of the Golden Dawn system of pairing. Crowley designed this deck to make use of the OOTK spread, which uses this same system of reading. I can get a better grasp on the card's true nature if I were to see what cards it related to in your reading.
Top   #11
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BrightEye  BrightEye is offline
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BrightEye 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xsyorra
I can get a better grasp on the card's true nature if I were to see what cards it related to in your reading.
I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to post this here again because I had the spread discussed at length in My Readings. But I see you've not enough posts to access tha forum yet, so here is the spread, kindly passed on to me by le fey:

---1-----2---
--5-3---4-6--
-------------
------7------
-----8-9-----

1. How the relationship helps the Querent.
2. How the relationship helps the Other.
3. How the relationship harms the Querent.
4. How the relationship harms the Other.
5. What the Querent fears about the relationship.
6. What the Other fears about the relationship.
7. The Common Ground - what both can agree upon.
8. The Way Forward - how to proceed from here.
9. Probable Outcome if steps are taken with all this in mind.

1. Prince of Wands
2. Chariot
3. 10 of Disks
4. 4 of Disks
5. 8 of Disks
6. Star
7. Knight of Wands
8. 6 of Cups
9. Knight of Cups

I'm not going to add my reading of the spread here as (as I said) it has been discussed before. I just posted my original question here because not everyone on the other forum is a Thoth specialist or has the deck to hand.

Thanks for offering, xsyorra, and nice to meet you.
Top   #12
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Knightward  Knightward is offline
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Knightward 

Emotional states are as temporary as anything else in some cases.

Example:

Man and Wife lvoe each other, get upset with each other fairly often, fight, then make up.

If there was no love there (or some other factor, but lets go with love) they wouldn't make up.

They love each other, reguardless of what each is feeling atm.

This makes love, a more permanant emotional state then anger.

-Fenier
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ravenest  ravenest is offline
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ravenest 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xsyorra
We cannot turn our feelings off any more than we can turn off our thoughts.
.
'

Ummmmm ... why cant we? What about magic ... mediation?
Top   #14
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BrightEye  BrightEye is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrightEye
7. The Common Ground - what both can agree upon.
8. The Way Forward - how to proceed from here.
9. Probable Outcome if steps are taken with all this in mind.

7. Knight of Wands
8. 6 of Cups
9. Knight of Cups
Sorry for coming back to this, but I've been thinking and reading about 'pleasure' in connection to both knights. The knight of cups worries me a littele since Crowley portrays him in quite a negative light. In my own readings with other decks I always found the king of cups to be someone who hold back with his emotions (reminds me a little of the Hierophant), doing the proper thing rather than following his heart, or being afraid to follow his heart.

Is he an echo of the Sun-water relationship in the 6 of Cups? More enduring perhaps than the Knight of Wands who seems to be passionate, impulsive, but not very patient?
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Knightward  Knightward is offline
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Knightward 

I tend to assign Knights mutable signs.

In this case, the Knight of Cups will be reflective of Pisces, ironically, also the 3rd water sign (Her = Cancer, Way forward = Scorpio, Outcome = Pisces)

Pisces is a creative sign, the sign of artists and idealists. Its a emotional sign which if flexable and adaptable. The sign glyph itself repersents the duality of nature, two fish, one swiming in either direction - yet attached. The sign is not about materialism, but about emotions and creativity.

But, now that I am looking at the card, what we have here is a Person, who via his horse, rushes in (like the Knight of Wands would do) and leeps up to obtain the Grail (Signifying contained emotional depth perhaps) and from that grail, we have, a crab, the sign of Cancer.

This is slightly differant then the Book of Thoth, which says the crab leaps out of the cup, btu given your situation I find my outlook more fitting.

There is a meeting of forces here, both betweent the rider and the grail/crab and drive which is signified by the horse to obtain that end. The horse carries the rider forth to claim his prize.

Now, this lady is of Cancer birthsign, and given the harmonious and water related aspect of both her sign, and the six of cups. I would tend to see the Knight here as more bennifcal.

The other thing to keep in mind, is that the Book of Thoth, iirc assigns the tradtional King assignment to the princes who sit on their chariots (thrones).

-Fenier
Top   #16
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BrightEye  BrightEye is offline
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BrightEye 

Yes, the cancer connection is interesting if uncanny. The very first card in the spread that came up for her was the Chariot, also cancer, also someone who holds the grail.

In the Sharman-Caselli deck that I used most before the Thoth, the King of cups is also depicted with a crab. The LWB says 'one who both loves and fears'. This card has come up with an uncanny frequency ever since I met this person. To such an extent that if I had to choose a court card for her it would be the King (or prince) of cups.

I've also noticed that the two knights (wands and cups) face in different directions.
Top   #17
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Knightward  Knightward is offline
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Knightward 

I am curious, do you happen to be a fire sign?
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BrightEye  BrightEye is offline
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BrightEye 

No, I'm a Libra. Rising sign Capricorn. Why?
Top   #19
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Knightward  Knightward is offline
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Knightward 

I going goign out on a limb and thinking that each Knight (being polor opposites as well as being faced away from each other) may be part of the sign of Pisces.

Since pisces is indicative in the Knight, I thouhgt that connection might exist.

It may still exist, as a symbol of your passion and emotional desire.

-Fenier
Top   #20




 


 


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