The Devil: not a bad boy, just misunderstood?

euripides

Ok so I'm playing the devil's advocate...

in the RWS the Devil is unrelentingly awful. There's no doubting the meaning of humanity enslaved by their desires, and they aren't pretty.

But wasn't Satan the most beautiful angel in heaven?

One of Ciro's devils is scorching hot, kinky and going up in flames. In the Rohrig, the Devil is the smooth-talking handsome dude in a suit, reminiscent of the seductive devil in movies, charming, sexy.

I feel I need to learn a lot more about pagan lore if I'm going to ever read successfully with my Druidcraft.

I've got a couple of decks where the Pagan tradition shows a very different side of the Devil. In the Arthurian tarot, XV is the Green Knight. In the Druidcraft, Cernunos god of the underworld - but also fertility, animals, and wealth. What an interesting discussion is to be had about these perspectives on sex, food, money and death.

The Christian tradition teaches that we rid ourselves of desire for material things - only the spiritual life matters. (I know this is a great simplification -) but Pagan traditions usually seem to root themselves in the physical world and see these things very differently.

Does your favorite deck have a different twist on the Devil (or his equivalents)?
 

obeygravity

My favorite deck is the Druidcraft because it's offered a lot of very clever ways of interpreting the cards, including the Devil. The Card in this deck is a lot more focused on the earthly connection to the devil card. In a lot of ways, the devil card is one that mirrors The Lovers in the deck, but the major difference is that the Lovers is more geared towards the idea of "choice" while the devil (cernunnos in this deck) is more geared towards the idea of "Surrender". I personally prefer this interpretation because surrendering can be something that's both liberating and all consuming. Surrendering involves allowing the elements around you to run their course, to go the direction that they need to and to completely release control. But the problem with allowing yourself to completely surrender is that if you let yourself lay there in the forest for eternity, you'll be consumed by the environment around you which in and of itself is a neutral thing from an objective stand point (because allowing yourself to be consumed by the environment around you means that animals will be fed and new plants can grow where you laid) but also destructive for you, because you've allowed yourself to completely surrender to the point of giving up and completely relinquishing any sense of power and control that you can have over the outcome.

It's a tricky card for sure, but one that I think often times offers a greater lessons. Sometimes we get so obsessed with trying to control things, getting caught up the concept of decision making (The Lovers) that we lose site of the fact that sometimes there are things that we cannot control, and that no matter how many choices we make, it doesn't change the other side's course of action. Sometimes what you need to do is just lay still for a while and let things grow as they need to. Give yourself time to rest and meditate on the energies that surround you, and when you've gathered the necessary energy and peace of mind - be ready to get up and walk again.
 

AJ

there is no devil or angel, just humans looking for a whipping boy to avoid consequences.
 

PAMUYA

The Devil will cause suffering in the long run. It will give you quick gratification, but you will never be satisfied, your quick fix. I have never seen the tarot devil as the Christian devil (I am not Christian, can't help you with that) The Devil is not the bad boy, it is you that sees that boy as something he is not. Your attachments and desires. It is the Devil within you that entraps and enslaved you.
 

Cocobird55

In the Victorian Romantic, the Devil is about all kinds of temptations -- things that we bring upon our selves is we listen to the Devil.
 

greatdane

kind of what Cocobird just said

I see the Devil as more material and/or emotional excesses.

Things to rein in. If I am reading about how a person affects my life, well, that can be a bit different. But I really have narrowed down the Devil in my readings for my purposes.

I read differently than many, but then I JUST READ tarot for myself.

I do one question, one card and will just ask maybe two or three max questions til I get what I am looking for.

So with one question, one card, I usually know what the Devil means for me :).
 

Tea&Temperance

I too have pondered on the thought of the Devil as misunderstood rather than downright evil.
I think it really depends on your personal history with the archetype.
Depending on the context of the question I'm asking I may lean toward the more traditional RWS interpretation (materialism, addiction, temptation, toxic relationships, obsession, needing to let go of bad habits etc) or I may lean towards my personal interpretation (when reading for myself).
My personal interpretation is as you put it "the devil's advocate". Could mean standing up for yourself, being true to yourself instead of falling in line and conforming, fighting for a cause you believe in, a fighting against a person in power, or even a call to loosen up and have a party (ie socialize) etc. I usually go with what makes the most sense in the context of my question.
A few of the decks I have have what I would call "cheeky" representations of the Devil: Wooden Tarot (skull/horns), TWU (smiling goat), Deviant Moon (Red devil).
My Lumina Tarot is the representation that I associate most with RWS interpretation of the Devil (the buffalo/bison seems so serious! But I love it.)
I feel like I need to meditate more on the "Horned God" spiritual aspect that could apply to the devil card. How it could represent a call to spirituality.
I love the idea of surrendering as an aspect of the Devil card, that is one I haven't considered yet.
 

VGimlet

Christian Devil I always feel was kind of influenced by Pan (horned god) Dionysius/ Bacchus. Just a theory, which I've read about here and there.

All about pleasure, wine, sex, song, etc. The earthy parts of man. Which of course = worldly and worldly....well you know.

When I'm reading it just depends. I don't usually see the Devil as evil, but perhaps over concerned with material things, or the temptations of sex drugs and rock and roll...and not always in a good way.
 

euripides

I think it really depends on your personal history with the archetype.

that's an interesting perspective. Hmm. Yeah I haven't had so much experience with humans that fit the archetype, but certainly with a bunch of vices, bad choices and low-level addictions. While I see evil in the world, it's largely at a distance, so maybe that is why I don't quite connect with the Judaeo-Christian Satan as popularly depicted.

I feel like I need to meditate more on the "Horned God" spiritual aspect that could apply to the devil card. How it could represent a call to spirituality.

Cernnunos seems to have some vague connections to Roman mythology but seems to be quite a shadowy figure.

I love the idea of surrendering as an aspect of the Devil card, that is one I haven't considered yet.

I hadn't heard of that.

Christian Devil I always feel was kind of influenced by Pan (horned god) Dionysius/ Bacchus. Just a theory, which I've read about here and there.

yes, I think there's a connection there - or perhaps rather, a parallel, which has since become somewhat conflated. I think the Greco-Roman tradition is really quite separate, and it's later in Europe that they seem to come together. I want to go and dig into the underworld now - I'm thinking of Persephone being carried off by Hades (sooooo much symbolism in *that* story. I had quite a thing for pomegranates for a while there)

Wikipedia says "Perhaps from fear of pronouncing his name, around the 5th century BC, the Greeks started referring to Hades as Pluto (Πλούτων, Ploútōn), with a root meaning "wealthy", considering that from the abode below (i.e., the soil) come riches (e.g., fertile crops, metals and so on).[9] Plouton became the Roman god who both rules the underworld and distributed riches from below."

so isn't that an interesting connection!

The Greek's tendency to give alternate names to aspects of a god can be a bit confusing. Pluto seems to be Hades' less frightening face, and he carries a cornucopia - again fertility closely linked with earth, underworld and death. I wonder if the Empress is Demeter or actually Persephone?

Isiah: “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! "
 

gregory

there is no devil or angel, just humans looking for a whipping boy to avoid consequences.
Good one, AJ !
In the Victorian Romantic, the Devil is about all kinds of temptations -- things that we bring upon our selves is we listen to the Devil.
Yes - isn't the big thing the temptation side of it ? Wasn't the fallen angel part all about giving in to the temptation to be supreme ?
Christian Devil I always feel was kind of influenced by Pan (horned god) Dionysius/ Bacchus. Just a theory, which I've read about here and there.

All about pleasure, wine, sex, song, etc. The earthy parts of man. Which of course = worldly and worldly....well you know.

When I'm reading it just depends. I don't usually see the Devil as evil, but perhaps over concerned with material things, or the temptations of sex drugs and rock and roll...and not always in a good way.
This - but sometimes obsession can lead to good stuff - think of obsessed scientists discovering stuff. And Bacchus is OK having fun; it's the taking the orgy too far that's the issue there. Sometimes it's OK to let yourself go with Bacchus, and have some real fun. To - yes - surrender to it all. You just need to know which of those temptations are OK to follow and which will damage you.

In the RWS, those chained guys could walk if they chose to - the chains aren't exactly unbreakable. You can resist if you need to - you just need to consider what MUST be resisted and what you can give in to. Sometimes you need to give in, or fail to achieve. Think of the temptation to try a new job. TERRIBLY scary. That all powerful devil tempts you with it. And it could be the perfect job. Sometimes temptation can lead to a vital leap into the scary, which takes us to where we need to be.