Impact of PCS on the RWS deck (split from: I don't think I could go back to Rider Wai

Richard

That makes sense time-wise, but it's anyone's guess if Smith would have consulted it. But if the information had already been made public, how is Waite's secrecy explained?

Perhaps he was still excessively conscientious about the initiatory oaths. That would be a personal hangup. Sometimes it is hard to change self-imposed constraints.
 

ravenest

That makes sense time-wise, but it's anyone's guess if Smith would have consulted it. But if the information had already been made public, how is Waite's secrecy explained?

"Well ... I do know the secret attributions ... but the recently published versions are not correct ... I have improved upon them and extended them ... but they are not for you because they are secret (but if you join my new reformed group they will be revealed to you in stages). However, I have alluded to them ... if you can decipher my writing you will find the new extended really real secrets ... as I have worked them out. "

- and it wasnt only Waite that acted that way ( nudge, nudge, ;) , :) , secret handshake {new reformed secret handshake with variation that only we know about ;) } )

... it was all through the western occult tradition at that time - 'charter dealers' and everything.
 

Miss Woo

" Daggy Christian artwork " :laugh: .... I think it is that very artwork that made it popular. That and the idea to make the artwork in little visual cameo scenes . (Not that I personally like it ... I think some of it is atrocious ... especially on the trumps. - Waite does " sound out-dated now in a weird Victorian/Christian way" to me as well . )

The scenic minors seem to make it easier to read for many people and the artwork style is perfect for a 'pre-modern' 'faux romantic' a la tarot look .... just what a lot of people want. Sort of like a tour through 'Arthurian Disneyland' that is easily comprehensible from the surface and able to receive projections of deep 'significance' for the imaginative .... and some codified masked 'secret stuff' ;) .

"Arthurian Disneyland". That's a good description, except I still think it looks plain ugly.

But I'm getting over my distaste for it...

A friend helped me to see that I've just been reacting to my strict Catholic upbringing, and this is most likely because I was a child in the 70's (and the Rider Waite has a 70's Christian look to me).
 

Michael Sternbach

"Arthurian Disneyland". That's a good description, except I still think it looks plain ugly.

But I'm getting over my distaste for it...

A friend helped me to see that I've just been reacting to my strict Catholic upbringing, and this is most likely because I was a child in the 70's (and the Rider Waite has a 70's Christian look to me).

The RWS has a comic book look to me, that's my childhood association, and it's not a bad one.

Also, the Medieval architecture really reminds me of the village I'm living in and the nearest city.

Of course, there are artistically more sophisticated decks. But it does have its charm, if you can connect to it.
 

Richard

......A friend helped me to see that I've just been reacting to my strict Catholic upbringing, and this is most likely because I was a child in the 70's (and the Rider Waite has a 70's Christian look to me).
Yes, almost all of the RWS Trumps are based on the Marseille Trumps, which arose in a Catholic cultural environment. Waite did secularize it slightly by changing the Pope to the Heirophant and the Popess to the High Priestess, but the overall tone remains solidly Christian.
 

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Zephyros

Well, "Christian," not necessarily Christian. The Waite Majors, with the exception of the Lovers, follow the Golden Dawn ones, that reflected its initiatory system of beliefs. It isn't necessarily Jesus's Christianity; they "neutralized" the context and kept the birth, death and resurrection formula of Osiris (the magical formula of IAO). The Pope was stripped of his temporal power and was "restored" to his original function as initiator into the Mysteries. Although the Hierophant retains some his authoritative connotations the High Priestess is, in a way, a "new" card that is quite different from the ideas associated with the Papess. It is, in a way, also restored to the original ideas of the Isian figure, in itself rife with sexual undertones.
 

Miss Woo

Yes, almost all of the RWS Trumps are based on the Marseille Trumps, which arose in a Catholic cultural environment. Waite did secularize it slightly by changing the Pope to the Heirophant and the Popess to the High Priestess, but the overall tone remains solidly Christian.

I don't have this problem with the Marseille or the Soprafino. I don't know why. It is the creepy 70's look of the Rider Waite that I find so off-putting. Yes, that's it, I find it creepy.
 

Owl Tarot

Well, "Christian," not necessarily Christian. The Waite Majors, with the exception of the Lovers, follow the Golden Dawn ones, that reflected its initiatory system of beliefs. It isn't necessarily Jesus's Christianity;

In that context, I don't think Waite's Christianity is necessarily the same as dogma Christianity is to begin with. I think it is Jesus's Christianity, yes, but under the light of an Adeptus Minor (and above) who refers to Christ under a pretty different light compared to what a "traditional" Christian or a dogma does (I think this is what you mean). He possibly refers to Christ in his function as Tiphareth, God the Son, and thereoff under a pretty different light then to what the Christian dogmas see Christ. See, the Christian dogmas generally skip many parts of Christ's life, teachings and functions. Among other things, I think he knew why the formula of IAO is not just the formula of IAO, there is also the answer to why the formula of IAO, or any other formula in general, is what it is.

What Waite doesn't do -me thinks- is to reveal all the aspects which he had been shown. At least this is what I sense from his work, that he had a mission which wasn't necessarily revealing to the outside. I might never know what he was getting at, but I feel he didn't reveal his innermost things. He was not too "flashy". Regardie praised him for his book, the Holy Kabbalah, and that alone says a lot.
 

Richard

Indeed, the imagery of the RWS, interpreted exoterically, reflects traditional Catholicism. However, in The Doctrine behind the Veil (Part II of The Pictorial Key to the Tarot) Waite reveals a bit of what he really had in mind, and it was not exoteric Christianity.