Book in English! to help with Tarot de Marseille ....

tmgrl2

Just wanted to add a comment re Silvie Simon's book, now that I have read most of it. I do like her interpretation of the Majors (she uses mostly Grimaud pictures) better than her discussion of the Minors. The Minors seem to rely heavily on RW interpretations and my overall feeling as I read through them was a preponderance of negativity.

So, again, I return to using my basic number references in combination with suit qualities and position of cards in spread.

I do like her chapter on How Tarot Works. Also, since there is little in English re Tarot de Marseille, she does have some interesting reflections on the Majors.

Book-wise I find myself drawn mostly to Klea and Jodorowsky, both of which have published works in French. Alas, another seemingly helpful book, has much to be desired.

terri

Since I was so enthusiastic at first, I felt a need to add this post in closure.
 

lionette

Great thread!

Wondering though, does anyone have a suggestion for a book with good discussion of the minors?

I've an old Bill Butler Dictionary of the Tarot, but each entry is so brief -- most often only keywords. Useful reference tool, but would prefer something written with more lengthy entries on each card. Any ideas?

thanks in advance
:)
 

brennamor

Books on TdM

Thanks for all the recommendations. I'm very interested in working more with the TdM and other antique decks. I was lucky enough to participate in Tom Little's defunct Antique Tarot Yahoogroup but that's about it.

I have Mediations on the Tarot but haven't read it. And I've just ordered the Simon book so I'm pretty psyched. Maybe I'll finally get somewhere.
 

tmgrl2

Now that I have read Silvie Simon's book and commented, I am going through Jonathan Dee's An Illustrated Guide to the Tarot published by Random House, 2001 (Gramercy Books).

This, too, was a book I bought several months ago in an effort to find discussions of "non-scenic" pips to aid me in the study of the Tarot de Marseille.

I am going to read it through. Dee uses the Lo Scarebo Italian cards. The discussions of the minors, therefore, are of the non-scenic pips. Glancing through, I look at certain cards. The three of swords is the "sorrow" and "pain" interpretation.

However, at the beginning of each number for the minors, he talks about the general meaning of the numbers. Each card has a brief paragraph introducing the number, then a paragraph on each suit for that number.

For example on the Tens:

According to the rules of numerology, when we reach the number ten, symbolically, we are returning to one (1 + 0 = 1).
Therefore, the elemental qualities of the aces are again in evidence, but this time expressed on a higher plane. The ancient Greek philosphers saw the number as holding all other numbers within it, so they identified it with the divine. The tens can be regarded as the ultimate of their suit.

The potential associated with the one cards of teh suits has now been bulfilled, and another set of circumstances now exists. When a aten appears in a reading the end of a cycle has been reached for good or ill, because it symbolizes the completion of journeys and the return to origins. ten has many symbolic associations, such as the Ten Commandments of the Old Testament adn the ten spheres on the cabbalistic Tree of Life in Hebrew mysticism.

Not detailed or enriched but a beginning.

For the Ten Swords (one of my favorites, which I call "The worst that could happen has" cards) Dee gives both upright and reversed interpretations (which he does for all cards).

Upright Ten of Swords:

As the ultimate card of a difficult suit, the ten of Swords has the reputation of being the worst card in the deck. It speaks of being left in the cold or betrayed - metphorically stabbed in the back. One of its traditional names is "ruin." When this card turns up, all that you dread is likely to occur. However, when things become so bad that they can't possibly get any worse, there is only one way to go and that's up! Looked at another way, the ten of Swords reveals that a run of bad luck can't possibly continue forever. After all, when all is lost, what more is there to lose?

This is the turning point, when a glimmer of good fortune will give you cause for hope. Slowly your confidence will be restored and you will eventually turn away from the unpleasantness that has dogged you for so long.

Again...we have snippets on the number Ten, and much of the RWS tradition of interpretation.

Klea in Au Fil d'Arcane gives the Ten of Swords six pages.

She discusses the number, relates it to the Wheel of Fortune, then gives the astrological allusions.

Klea's rich discussion covers the actual non-scenic arrangement of swords, absence of center flowers on the top and bottom. Instead there are two swords piercing through the crosses of four by four swords. She then goes on at length to discuss the bodies of the swords, the combinations of numbers depicted by the arrangement, the colors, the sword handles, the two flowering buds (in detail).

Klea summarizes that should one focus on the dark central swords, the card may seem to be oppressive in nature. That aside, she goes on, they also represent the progress of spiritual reflection forming, in one form or another, (the position of the two central swords meeting forms a triangle) the sacred Triangle of the Trinity in its situation of change or evolution. The two swords with their blue blades, therefore, are open to the voice of the Spirit in all domains.

This card is about the soul climbing higher, perhaps without knowing it, and more or less, represents a process that takes a great deal of time.

Next she reviews the play on the words "l'ame" (the soul) and "lame" (sword or blade) and indicates that if one's soul/sword is broken, one may not be open to be absorbed by the Spirit. (This calls to mind, now, jmd's reference to the Language of the Birds in another thread)

Anyhow, just felt like doing some quick translating to show richness of what is available in French by one author. At the end of each minor, Klea gives five or more meanings to each level: symbolical, spiritual, mental, emotional, social, concrete and physical for each of these minors. For Ten of Swords, then, we have multiple interpretations ...protection of the spirit, harmony between spiritual and material, internal change or evolution, clarity, objectivity, speed, idealism, compassion, completion of a project, rediscovered vitality.

No more "dreaded Ten of Swords" Rather, hope is on the horizon. One may not "know" this consciously, but it is just around the corner to one who is willing to have faith and open up to the grace that is already mending a broken soul.

Having said all of this, I return again, to the idea, that if one is willing to medidate quietly on the minors of the Tarot de Marseille, many of these meanings can and will arise without study of a book in English. I have only read little pieces in French. What these pieces have done for me is open up the possibility for interpretation of the minors on many levels using the elements drawn.

Diana and jmd, especially, have encouraged me to do just this.
Take a card, carry it around, set it out against the same number among the suits and reflect on the suit meanings , the arrangements, the colors, the flowers, the numbers, the spiritual, physical, emotional, mental, social, concrete, and symbolical aspects. It is amazing how much can come forward from a pip that does not depict a scene with human figures. In the RWS, we do this with the Aces and with the Eight of Wands. Just take that to the rest of the minors, and open up to what comes from within.

As I read in a thread earlier this week, by Flornoy, in the discussion of the Langue d'Oi (Language of the Birds), and on jmd's reflection on it, one must medidate to open up the "third ear."

I am using the Tarot de Marseille and other RWS decks to do meditations that allow me to connect with all of my senses. As I did with a card from the Gilded recently, using Mary Greer's "Entering a Card," step inside the borders of a card, and listen, smell, see, feel, and touch. It's all there for us if we seek it.

So, while we are all waiting for the "right" book in English, we may just discover that we are carrying it all around inside.