Copyright Material

Macavity

One can hardly fail to notice the amount of Tarot related material online - in the form of webpages etc. Many of these contain e.g. images of cards and divinatory meanings. My question however relates more to Tarot SOFTWARE. I am writing a program to assist me (mainly) with learning certain aspect of Tarot. It might (being careful here! ;)) contain images or divinatory text. It might be useful to other people. Naturally I would want to use these in a legitimate and legal way. Anyone any ideas about the status re. use/distribution of such things?

I beleive, in one case, someone wrote US games a nice letter and was allowed to use images - provided the manufacurer received a nice, clear, visible citation/aknowledgement. Any experiences to relate? :)

Mac
 

Laurel

This is an excellent question and one I don't personally have a good answer for. I'd write US games and other publishers and ask them. You might also approach specific artists of specific decks and query. Query a lot of people so you have a multitude of options.

Laurel
 

Macavity

Thanks Laurel. I think that's good advice. I suspect the issue of card images is resolvable simply by writing for the author/copyright holder's yes or no. Doubtless it's also a good idea to protect your OWN images too! ;) The issue of card descriptions/keywords must be rather nebulous. Perhaps like "pop" lyrics it's a matter of "intellectual property"? In a similar way, there must be (by now!) a lot of plagiarism and overlap in these too. We'll see... :)

Aside: Perhaps AE wait is a safe bet. He seemed to provide divinatory stuff and then imply you would be an "idiot" to use/believe them. LOL. "Uncle Al" Crowley might be a different issue - Infringement of copyright might precipitate the arrival of (like for Mathers?) "Beelzebub and 49 subordinate daemons" on one's doorstep. Could quite spoil one's day })

Mac
 

Laurel

On the topic of Crowley, I do know that the OTO has been fighting numerous court battles to win control of the publishing rights of every piece of his work as possible. So I wouldn't go near quoting from the Book of Thoth or other tarot-based Crowley works in a software package.

Card descriptions and keywords is a good point. I would go with keywords=okay; card descriptions could be based on Waite or someone but should not directly quote the source without author's consent. It wouldn't be hard to use 2-3 sources as a foundation and create something very readable.... or heck, ask Thirteen for permission to work with his! :)
 

Macavity

Yes, I got that impression - given the (ample) number of copyright and similar notices on the average GD or OTO site ;) I just sit and marvel at some of the graphics work that is now on display. It's difficult not to absorb some of the ideas... at least by osmosis. Heheh

Just as (another) general aside, additional material is not essential to my purpose. But, as you say, it might indeed be FUN to collaborate with interested folk. I will anyway put up some information here, when the program is in a little more presentable form. Hint: It will have perhaps little overlap/conflict with alreadly available software... more to do with learning elements and card counting ideas etc. We'll see whether some of this works in practice and if it has anything other than limited appeal :D

Mac
 

Jewel

I am not sure how relevant this post will be, but reading the posts gave me an idea that might work ... Here at Aeclectic we have several wonderful artists creating their own decks. In the development of their decks they have also developed meanings for these cards. We also have Thirteen's basics. Perhaps this could be a project where you could collaborate with other Aecleticians, giving each artist and author the intellectual copywright for their work ... and you could copywright an original piece of software with original content ... just my two pearls worth. Good luck! sounds like a great idea.
 

Macavity

Certainly so, Jewel. I guess "we" have to evaluate the program to see if what *I* envisage is any GOOD for the average enthusiast. I will try to put up a version of the program on the web (perhaps this w/e) and then someone can hopefully try it. It will e.g. work now on Linux and Windows ME. It *should* work on ANY platform - not just the canonical "Windows". But, as to whether it WILL (as those who program know all too well) is yet another matter! :D

A lot hinges on whether one believes computers are useful in the process... Perhaps they can be, if only to throw up a large number of cards/spreads for practice, with various techniques etc. Machines could (I guess) do the boring work e.g. to CHECK out whether such techniques as cards counting, elemental dignities have been done *consistently* under some rule system? The notion of rules might be the antithesis of tarot to some. The whole thing reminds me of the age old question as to whether machines could play chess at one time? ;)

Tarot is not (yet) my strongest point. This has been helping me (at least) to try to *really* get into e.g. parts of the "Book of Thoth" - Well to the limit of my understanding anyway! It might be useful to talk to any number of Tarot experts, artists etc. We'll see if it generates some interest... More anon. :)

Thanks for the thoughts, Mac
 

Osher

Speaking of copyright, I offered to scan the LWB of someone the other day, and if my memory chips function, I recall a thread of scan of LWB's.

What is the copyright position of LWB's? Obviously, there wouldn't be a problem sending someone who has lost their LWB a scan as they have paid for the copyright (even if they have lost their original).
 

Macavity

Speaking of which... I'll leave your question open, Happiness! ;)

I remark that I solved my immediate problem with some (rather good!) public domain(?) "card meanings" due to Baird Stafford and posted to alt.pagan(?) some time ago. These still appear in various places on the web e.g. http://www.barkingduck.net/ehayes/essays/fulldeck.txt and elsewhere as PDF files etc. Indeed most useful, well thought out and moreover machine readable! I'm still working on my little program from time to time...

For card images, I used some (strongly!) "colorized" RW images (Colman Smith Tarot?) distributed under the GNU free software license. I see other software authors often use sufficiently "denatured" RW or Marseille images - probably OK-ish? But I suspect the deciding factor is (as you alluded) is whether you intend to make millions in profit out of someone elses work or not. Somehow I don't anticipate that MOST of us will :) and certainly not for poor old Pixie Smith...

Macavity

Reading SOME copyright notices, I'm reminded of that scene from "Gladiator" where the Gemanii(?) return the poor decapitated Roman envoy strapped to his horse: "They say NO, Quintus" Apparently so! })