What is the Y on the magician staff

Teheuti said:

Both of these quotes also apply to the Hierophant and the Two of Wands where the rose & lily also appear together.

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In many ways, the Hierophant of the Golden Dawn is portraying the Magician, when he stands before the Altar of the Universe in the Garden of the path of Tau, and invokes Osiris Onniphoros for the Mystic Repast. Incidentally where the Hierophant stands at this time (west of the altar facing east) is portrayed in the Magician card as well. But the elements would be

Rose - air
Lamp - fire
Bread and Salt - earth
Wine - water

Teheuti said:

“So, virtue and beauty, the lily and the rose, really are, in essence, inseparable, dependent each upon the other, in a sense, BOTH married to G-d. The rose brings us to G-d, the immanent, the lily brings us to G-d, the transcendent. And when we do "GOOD WORKS", we bring G-d, the transcendent, INTO manifestation (Waite, The Way of Divine Union).

Here's how Florence Farr (for a while chief of the London Temple of the GD) explained the rose and lily as parallel to sun and moon imagery.

“The sun and moon are the celestial luminaries, but the central ones are a fire hidden in the earth or nitre, and an airy lunar nature in the water. These two mixed natures are known to us as the desires of the flesh [rose] and the phantasies of the imagination [lily]: in their transmutation by consecration of the desires [rose] and purification of the thoughts [lily], lies the pathway to wisdom. The will [rose] and the imagination [lily] of an adept are symbolized by the Urim and Thummin of the High Priest.” [Euphrates or the Waters of the East]

Both of these quotes also apply to the Hierophant and the Two of Wands where the rose & lily also appear together.

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Thank you again Teheuti for your simple exposure style.

Much appreciated.

lucifall said:

The rose brings us to G-d : the rose under the table is under the fire symbol
the lily brings us to G-d the transcendent: The big lily under the water symbol
G-d the transcendent into manifestation: the lily of the valley under the dove
This fits in my opinion.

Luci

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Well I must admit that this thread has been a great learning curve.
Thanks all for your informative posts.

re-pete-a said:

They did a bad job of keeping them for inhouse use. It didn't take too long before they were made available for public use......

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Yes, Waite was not against making money when he could see the opportunity. Paul Foster Case also was not keen on using the cards for divination but changed his mind and even wrote Oracle of the Tarot, which is about using the cards for divination.

There's not much about C'ptn Olcott who worked tirelessly for the GD as well as Blavatski.
A very dedicated man indeed.

And Pixie, poor girl. she wasn't supported by the GD group. A pittance for her works of art.


Ain't it funny that of all the personalities that figured in those times,how they simply faded away. Just ordinary people with dreams that jaded faded .

One wonders sometimes about the value of searching . Many are disappointed at the later stages of their lives about the results.

Nothing externally gained . Still the same fragile creatures after all that work.

In my experience, having put Grace, Will, Ebony, Phyllis, My Grandfather, and Red down in the grounds or scattered their ashes to the winds and waters -

All of my mentors considered it worth it. Some had money and loved ones close, all were quite rich. All live on in me. The work calls the Artist and the Magician, the Prophet and the Poet; mutants each one of them, from their common man. Like all evolution, not all mutations find purchase in the future of their species. My mutation has found that purchase and will continue to thrive.

The Calvinists started making every story of a Magician a tragic Faustian epic with the moral "don't play with the unknown". meh, I am not a Calvinist and we see what all their superstitions got them. I am a new breed, and we don't care at all for threats of poverty or damnation in our oaths. We recognize humanity finding an equitable financial model for wealth representation is a work in progress and one subject to the will of the people, and not even your own spending or saving can any longer guarantee your monetary position. It is ambigious, unknown - typically what we like to work with, essence of mercury, substance of aethyr.

Humanity is growing into something that will eventually realize how harmful it is to itself to make each component of it independently accountable for building a hive of its own. It is wasteful, divisive and distracting from our real future. WE are all the Magician, collectively. Prometheus unchained and still holding the Reed with the Fires he claimed. Our world is our altar, our embodiment our temple. Reach up and plug in to the heavens, stand firmly in Valley of the Shadow of Death and nothing shall be denied thee!

But one thing is certain, if you find yourself in the presence of the Lord of the Universe, Heru Ra Ha, who is the pinnacle of all you can be and beyond, be ye man or woman - and you turn away, you deny your own genius a chance to manifest as part of the world you consciously experience. Sadly, it seems this is what Pamela Coleman Smith did. That is the fear of success or failure.

Fear not, and there is nothing to hold you back.
No Sin, No Taboo, No Enemy.

brightcrazystar said:

But one thing is certain, if you find yourself in the presence of the Lord of the Universe, Heru Ra Ha, who is the pinnacle of all you can be and beyond, be ye man or woman - and you turn away, you deny your own genius a chance to manifest as part of the world you consciously experience. Sadly, it seems this is what Pamela Coleman Smith did.

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How so? When? In what respect?

"How so? When? In what respect?"

Here is the general principle of life. Your sense are the means by which you experience it. It is why the Grades of the Outer Order of the Golden Dawn are wedded to the senses, as are the elements and the sacraments of the mystic Repast. I included these below for reference.

When you are called to do something and you do not do it, or turn your back on it, you suffer. You were given a place in Humanity, and chose, sadly, not to take it. I honestly know a little more of this story of the role of Pixie Smith in the Golden Dawn than is published. I think she was mstaken to have left with Waite, and I think he so impressed her, and she was so optimistic of her future that he was easily able to sway her.

I think the schism that rocked the Golden Dawn was one of which few people recovered. They took an oath TO EACH OTHER in front of the awesome terrible lord of the universe, deprived of their senses and asking should they violate them, they be harshly dealt with by all manner of bad stuff. The thing was, these oaths were actually fairly Masonic Rhetoric, verbally. Cross my heart, hope to die stuff. The problem was Masons are not Magicians. They were surrounded by all kinds of self-created and channeled projections of the highest sort, in the presence of all of the forces of fate, and asking for, in most cases, exactly what they got.

The whole system works much better if your Oaths are understood as penalties with benefits. "May my tongue be ripped out of its skull" becomes "May my speech be far from hollow and intellectual."

But their susperstitions got the better of them, and so they ran. Many *got* it. A lot did not. The tragedy is, this DOES work, but it works in the mind of the Candidate who is not superstitious for benefit. To the person afraid, it has the opposite effect. Guilt and Shame take hold. They are deprived BY THEMSELVES of their joy and sustenance in life. They, in short, psychically and subconsciously sabotague themselves.

I feel, and have as much confirmation as I need that she had regret over Waite's actions and her part in them in dividing the Order. She left his group shortly thereafter, and despite all her work, was almost never heard of. This doesn't mean I think this is what she gets for leaving the G.D., it means tragically, this the lesson you learn for betraying what you hoped to be true and are called to do. I think that is what she did, and her symbolic gesture, subconscious or otherwise, of that was joining the one religion contrary to Oaths she took, but may have not understood. It was her "Telestai" though long before she was on the Rose Cross.




The Elements of the Mystic Repast
Hear Sound (Active Spirit - Hierophant Invocation)
Hear Silence (Passive Spirit - All take part of the following in Silence)
Smell Rose (Air)
Feel and See Fire (Fire as light it is spirit visible, grows rose, grape, grain)
Taste Wine (Water - from Earth )
Feel Bread (Soft) and Salt (Hard)
Spirit Active - TELESTAI (The Kerux destroys the Slience)

The "feel" is difficult to understand, until one considered there are more nerve endings in the tongue than in any of the other appendages that men and women commonly share. This was a co-ed mystery, and especially the
Mathers who were married in abstinence were certainly not going further down a road toward other nerve endings that Crowley barreled down head to the wind, so to speak.

Some complain each element is inclusive of the others.
That is exactly the point.

Sound is Spirit, invoked by the Silence of the entire Sacrament, and destroyed by the Telestai of the Kerux. The tragedy of the Death which confounds beauty of the Rose Cross.

All of this is key to understanding.

Ok, if I understand, then, you're referring to her walking away from the situation there.

I think I am more talking about her turning her back on herself, the higher aspirations of her soul. She may not have understood that as she knelt before the Altar of the Universe and said her Oath. She may not have understood when after your Oath you are told to "Raise THYSELF Up."

But the Altar of the Universe, is the formation of the Pentagram, Holy Emblem of Self Knowledge and Ultimate Power in Five-fold Expression. If she didn't ever understand that was a power she gave it, and reclaim that power - the world is a dimmer place without her light.

I don't think Waite would think he cheated her. I think he paid her a price he felt was fair to offer, and she felt was fair to recieve. I think she cheated herself for not negotiating more to what she was worth. He was a Mason, it's his job to cheat people if they let him, lol! It supposedly teaches them their real value. I don't follow that frame of thinking, which is why I am not a Mason.