Discussion Group - Swords Overview

re-pete-a said:

we feel that were onto something here in your use of the word ELEMENT,our understanding is strife,which ever way that comes,words, deeds,power ,the action of these elements create re-actions.The quill to us has the element of the intellect and is the tool of thought.Notice there is a feather on the fools head,as well in the childs hair in the SUN card.They're the colour red,to us this would indicate passionate thoughts....

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I personally have always seen the red feather in the Fool card as a symbol of desire - the Fool is a card to me that represents those aspects deep within ourselves that longs to try the unusual, grow and expand, hence the red feather representing desire. - so yes the quill could I see be seen as connected to thoughts put into action.

Thanks for seeing something I did not!

so yes the quill could I see be seen as connected to thoughts put into action.






WE see it as just thoughts,perhaps potential,,,, on the mind of.
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Amateur Model

Good point, I have not read the entire thread, but I have to agree, thinking is not an action! My mom used to allways tell me, if your thinking (talking or otherwise) you are not doing.

Starling said:

I really see the 8 of Swords that way. She is blindfolded and has her hands tied behind her back. But no one is around. If she thinks it through she can make it out of her situation.

Same with the 9 of Swords. Right now she is crying, but once the tears stop, the only way out is to start thinking.

And in the 5 of Swords, which one of the figures are you? Remember there are three people but 5 swords. Two people have already left to get on with their lives. How do you handle winning and/or losing? Do you get on with your life? Do you start walking away? Do you cry your heart out? Are you a good or bad winner? A good or bad loser? All of those are questions you need to work out BEFORE the fight begins and not just once it has ended.

The Swords "look" like they are about actions, but except for the 7 no actions are happening on the cards. Everything is either before the action happened or after. Even in the 7 the action is really over. The card doesn't show the man taking the swords. It shows him getting away AFTER taking them.

The wands really are about actions and actions happen on some of the cards.

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Waite's view of the Sword

Waite was a kabalist and thought of the tarot in terms of the Kabala and the Hebrew letters associated with the Kabala. Zayin (also spelled Zain) represents the Sword in Hebrew. Zayin is the 3rd of the 12 single letters of the hebrew alphabet and corresponds to the 17th path of the Kabala (The Lover Cards [represenintg choice?]) Zayin also corresponds to the astrological sign Gemini (the Cardinal Airy sign) which is ruled by the planet Mercury. In the Kabala the Sword is not seen as a weapon, but as a tool. The preeminent tool of logic and reason. Think of the idea of the sword as a double-edged tool that can both cut away what is unnecessary from a problem and at the same time stab straight to the heart of the problem. Thus, the Suit of Swords is a suit of logic and reason. It also corresponds to the element of Air. Thus, when looking at the Suit of swords, one should not be looking for violence, or war, but instead one should look for logic and reason and the ability to think clearly and cogently in order to overcome and survive any situation.

There is another interesting astrological association with the Suit of Swords. The zodiac signs are divided decans (a decan is ten degrees and thus each 30 degree sign has three decans) The Two, Three and Four of Swords correspond to the 3 decans of the zodiac sign Libra (which is the element Air and Cardinal1); the Five, Six and Seven of Swords correspond to the 3 decans of Aquarius (which is element Air and Fixed2): and The Eight, Nine and Ten of Swords correspond to the three decans of Gemini (the element Air and Mutable3). This interesting association will help you to understand much about the divinatory meanings of the pip cards of the Suit of Swords.

One last interesting association between astrology and the Suit of Swords. Gemini, Libra, and Aquarius are odd signs and therefore are considered positive and masculine signs in astrology.

Notes:
1. A CARDINAL SIGN indicates an active temperament. The subject usually becomes prominent in some manner, whether famous or notorious.
2. FIXED SIGNS give fixity of purpose, determination, reliability, firmness.
3. MUTABLE SIGNS charm of manner, placidity and adaptability that sometimes causes the subject to be misjudged and suspected of deceit

just some thoughts

A swords cuts, swings, pierces the air. In earth it would have limited effect and get stuck, in water it would cause a temproary displacement of water, in fire little to no effect. A sword is only a sword in the air.
Thoughts are abstract and intangible like air. Action is needed to make thoughts real, useful, to have impact and meaning. To me, swords transmit thoughts into action.
The only way to gain full insight into a situation is to think. Analysis cuts to the heart of a matter like a sword.
A sword can be used to defends one's ego.
A sword can be used to annihilate, or set one free.
A sword can be used to settle a conflict.

A sword sitting on the table instills caution, a sword in hand could indicate pending strife,Words can cut deeper than swords ,Swords eminate a feeling of. All these elements are in the mind,therefore of the air..INTENT.
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Brunette french

The swords seem to represent negative emotions/feelings/depression to me etc etc but i dont think it is negative as such... sometimes the only way to get over depression, negative emotion is to 'cut deep' and think about what is causing the problems. Cutting deep and thinking about what is causing ur distress, stagnation, inabilities to cope etc is action. Thinking and expressing yourself in words during an internal conflict is action! cutting/stabbing the problems.

dunno if that any help :-z

On Swords.

Yes, I agree Swords are double edged. As in interpreting two ways and it can mimic our speech. But swords are also for defense and protection and on the other side it is aggression. When I read and the Swords come up I generally see this as 'cutting through complication' of some sort, or the confusion. Cutting attachments. Cutting the links. But thinking about the Ace of Swords for instance I see this as cutting through confusion and having NEW beginnings. Also, thrusting as getting to the 'meat of the matter'. An instrument of force and power or just jurisdiction, as in wielding power. And in addition the yods around the sword are a blessing to continue on this path and the crown may mean Victory.

...In the Kabala the Sword is not seen as a weapon, but as a tool. The preeminent tool of logic and reason...Thus, the Suit of Swords is a suit of logic and reason. It also corresponds to the element of Air. Thus, when looking at the Suit of swords, one should not be looking for violence, or war, but instead one should look for logic and reason and the ability to think clearly and cogently in order to overcome and survive any situation.

There is another interesting astrological association with the Suit of Swords. The zodiac signs are divided decans (a decan is ten degrees and thus each 30 degree sign has three decans) The Two, Three and Four of Swords correspond to the 3 decans of the zodiac sign Libra (which is the element Air and Cardinal1); the Five, Six and Seven of Swords correspond to the 3 decans of Aquarius (which is element Air and Fixed2): and The Eight, Nine and Ten of Swords correspond to the three decans of Gemini (the element Air and Mutable3). This interesting association will help you to understand much about the divinatory meanings of the pip cards of the Suit of Swords.

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These associations make sense to me, and while I have done some initial study ito Kabbalah and some further study into both astrology and tarot, I don't remember coming across the astrology/tarot connection before.

Hermotimus, can you recomend some study sources, i.e. books or websites?

[quote[Dadsnook, your comment has actually crystallized something for me. The swords are very much just menacing rather than actually dangerous, emphasizing the fact that these cards are about things that are going on in our minds. Wow.[/quote]

Building on the notion that swords represent contemplation before the action, or reflection after the action. I don't understand how still or stationary swords are menacing, at least not swords in the context of RW as worked out in this thread. Perhaps, where wands are kinetic energy, sword are just potential energy, niether good nor bad, not menacing.

Swords are the result of focused, applied forces, the human knowledge combined with the human action/strength, harvesting earth elements (metal) and manipulating them using the properties of fire and water. Swords can easily become plowshares,with all of the elements mentioned above brought to bear. Therefore, swords are focused intent.

This line of thought is reminding me of the myth of Waylan's Sword.

Hope this resonates with some of you; these threads are certainly helping me!