I need great suggestions on learning Duquotte's book, PLEASE !!!

I just got Duquotte's book "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Book". But it is a lot more complicate with the Kabbalistic and astrological attribution. So, it is overwhelmed for me and I am confused and lost. I feel like I try to get into a whole completely different "world" of tarot.

One thing I did without this book was looking at each one of the Thoth cards, then look at the each one of the Rider Waite cards. I got an idea on some of the Thoth card, but not all because the images are different like the Hermit, the Fool, Aeon, etc...

Anyone who has read this book, please give me ideas on how to study it.

Thanks

take it easy

is the only advice i can give with that book,
in many ways it is a whole new world of tarot,,
but remember that the toth tarot is based on the golden dawn tarot ,, and therefore the waite system as well.
with the differnce being,, the change in the strenght and justice card (back to its original order)
and the star is not tzaddari for kabbalistic meanings so the star and i forget what other card have been switched.

but what i mean by taking it easy is take it nice and slow and study one system at a time.
I wouldnt' even worry about the astrology or the kabbalah meanings right now,,
but just look at the card meanings themselves and see if it makes sense to you.

example I had to think long and hard before i could accept strength as lust,, and temperance as art still throws me.
so get to know the system of the tarot , aka the changes one gets when switching between the two tarots.

then slowly start to read the symbolism,,
the fool card doenst look so scary when examined in that light eheh.

when it comes to astrology or kabbalah,, i wouldnt' undertake the study of any of the system by the toth alone,, but get some good primers on either astrology or kabbalah when you begin to study it further.

you may want to look at other toth books, and crowley own toth tarot book itself afterwards as well.

the chicken qabbalah is a great book which will serve as an excellent primer for it, written by lon milo as well.

I've never really heard of people having trouble with duquettes book (?)

If you want complicated, read the book of thoth by crowley himself.

What part are you having trouble with? The astrology? Kabbalah? Changes?

Ok, I started by reading the description of the image, the astrology on that same page, THEN I look for the meaning , I mean I draw the connection between the image and the definitions of the card. (No, I am not trying to define the card myself). There are definitions on the page or at the latter part of the book. My problem is trying to connect the image to the definition.

At the beginning of the book, the author talked about the system, but I have not read it yet.

Am I learning it the wrong way ? (I am new to the kabbalistic system, and I dont know astrology too well)

So I take it you are up to the card meanings

*shuffles through book*

So I'm on page 96. Well, when I first started reading his book, I just read the meat and potatoes of each card section. If you read the section on kabbalah, then its ok to look at and memorize that part, but otherwise, just skip it and get the easier stuff out.

A book that might warm you up to Thoth (it took me forever) is 'keywords for the crowley tarot' by banzhaf and theler. It goes through all the symbolism that duquette and his truly (AC) will explain in their own books.

Duquette takes a complex system and tries to strain it as much as he can, but as a good system it is, there is still a hard core to it. But it is worth the work if you find it interesting. Hope to see you in the Thoth areas again.

Here is an online version of 'book T' which is his deck in a bundle

http://www.tarot.org.il/Library/Mathers/Book-T.html
Book T

sunstallion said:

I just got Duquotte's book "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Book". But it is a lot more complicate with the Kabbalistic and astrological attribution. So, it is overwhelmed for me and I am confused and lost. I feel like I try to get into a whole completely different "world" of tarot.

One thing I did without this book was looking at each one of the Thoth cards, then look at the each one of the Rider Waite cards. I got an idea on some of the Thoth card, but not all because the images are different like the Hermit, the Fool, Aeon, etc...

Anyone who has read this book, please give me ideas on how to study it.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Hello Sunstallion, my first recommendation would be to avoid comparing decks. IMO these are two entirely different systems, further study and experience will only prove this point. Regarding the attributions, simply read part 1, then move into part two. It's a process that takes time and experience. Take your time, be patient, use the cards. Understanding will develop in time. I highly recommend the Book of Thoth as well. Don't be surprised though if you don't completely understand the system after just one read. In particular read the information on the Aeon card (BOT) this may help explain this NEW system.

sunstallion said:

At the beginning of the book, the author talked about the system, but I have not read it yet.

Am I learning it the wrong way ? (I am new to the kabbalistic system, and I dont know astrology too well)

Click to expand...

Hey Sunstallion...

So you're saying that you skipped over the 100 pages of groundwork that DuQuette wrote to introduce the unfamiliar system, and are frustrated because you are unfamiliar with terms he introduced in that section. I think you just answered your own question. In the latter half of the book, DuQuette is (naturally) assuming you've read his overview.

Jumping straight to the section on card meanings is counterproductive, especially if you have no background in Qabalah, astrology, or Thelema... because DuQuette didn't include that first 100 pages to pad out his book. In many ways that's the section most useful to beginners.

I'm all for working directly with the cards from the minute you have them in your hands... but you'd do well to learn a little about the system before you start looking at meanings for each card. Each of those card meanings is connected to an overall structure like ribs connected to a spine and will prove MUCH easier to learn if you have a sense of that structure's outline.

And I agree with Edge about not comparing decks. It really will confuse you more than it will help.

If I were you, I would go back and actually read the book from the beginning.

I'm working my way thru the Duquette book. I've actually read the first part and am now studying the cards. What I've done is just read the first part of the book. No real effort to understand or compare. Being a Tarot newbie, its all rather overwhelming. So I'm not trying to necessarily make sense of the stuff that I have no prior experience with. I'll go back to it later. As my interest deepens then I can get books that will help me with that particular subject. I don't like the RWS deck, so I'm not inclined to want to compare. When I read with one of the decks I do have, I often pull out the Thoth cards and try and learn what they would mean. The meanings are sometimes similar, but there is a much different slant. I have also found that the non Thoth decks I own all use the old order for the Majors and that helps me keep things straight.

Just relax!

Jen

Scion said:

Jumping straight to the section on card meanings is counterproductive, especially if you have no background in Qabalah, astrology, or Thelema... because DuQuette didn't include that first 100 pages to pad out his book. In many ways that's the section most useful to beginners.

Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. And with the exception of the quotes he provides from the letters between Uncle Al and Auntie Frieda on the making of the cards (alas only in some of the card entries), he doesn't really add to what Crowley himself wrote about the cards themselves - and oversimplifies in others, or attributes an idea to Crowley without sourcing it. I find his main use for me was in the first section - introducing the whole system. I tend to rely on Crowley directly if I need to look up individual cards, though I'll check Duquette for extras (like the delicious snippets from the letters), and Barzhof for another angle of understanding.

Leave the RWS aside, it won't help you. Pamela Colman Smith's sensibility was a world away from the world of Crowley and Harris, even if Colman Smith and Crowley had both been members of the Golden Dawn. Colman-Smith was too much in her own world as an artist - and Waite as a Christian esotericist - to be of much use to you in trying to understand the Thoth deck, which was born of the vastly different spiritual experiences and artistic training of Crowley and Harris. In any case, Crowley moved away from the Golden Dawn orthodoxy (such as it was) pretty quickly - he was an original freethinker.

One of the best introductions to his way of perceiving - and feeling - the world, and therefore a good way of understanding the Thoth deck, in which he and Harris summarized that view in images, can be found in The Book of the Law, where he wrote about his early spiritual experience in Egypt. In it he claimed to have channelled a messenger called Hoor-paar-kraat, from the goddess Nuit (the Universe), who told him of the new Aeon (Age). It was very illuminating!